No, it's not an opinion, it's simply a position that is subject to change based on facts and evidence. Define God by stating which religiously claimed God you believe in and why . That's simply not true. Unlike theists, we atheists don't just blindly pick a side that answers the question without sufficient substances to back it up, we are happily admitting the lack of knowledge and will be waiting for more evidences to surface before making such judgement. It is THE rational stance to actually "play the game". I agree that selfish motive isn't necessarily a valid assumption, honestly I hardly come across any criticisms assuming that was the case. In fact, in a lot of atheist discussion, we acknowledge the fact that the most obvious cause for a person to become religious is his family raised him to be religious.
Just to be clear, how would you rank the following in terms of likelihood of being true? 1. God(any clear definition you'd like to use) 2. Nirvana 3. Ghosts(people who die have their spirits trapped and you can't see them) 4. Men In Black as described exactly in the movies 5. A deity that, should you put your tooth under your pillow, may come by at night and take such tooth while giving you money or candy
Someone should do a Pascal wager with the lottery. You will win the lottery: Buy ticket = millionaire. Don't buy ticket = no change. You won't win the lottery: Buy ticket = -$1. Don't buy ticket = no change. Looking at the cost/benefit ratio, it's obvious we should all buy lottery tickets.
More on shifting the burden of proof or otherwise known as "Argument from Ignorance" <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/KayBys8gaJY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
If you are a believer of hell, you better make damn sure, you live a virtuous life. There are people who lose limb and their life is hell. There are people who lose limb, feel the physical pain, but is mentally fine and is at peace. In a way, your reality is your own mind creation. If there is an afterlife, you think that something of you is carried forward to the afterlife. It's definitely not your body, so it could be your mind. Without a body, hell seems to be a state of mind. If you believe in hell, you created your chance to be in hell. If you don't believe in hell, you may enter the same after-life and your altitude toward it is whatever you believe it is.
I can't guarantee that you will, and you can't guarantee that you won't. Neither one of us knows what will happen after we die. I am open to the possibility that I am right and that I am wrong because I admit that I don't know. You, on the other hand, claim knowledge that you cannot possibly have, and are open only to the possibility that you are right. That's almost the definition of an extremist. Ah, so now you're a judge of what a God would and would not do? Aren't we a bit high on ourselves here, eh? Anyways, your "evidence" is simply your personal assumption. What happened to that scientific data you appear to have that proves to us that God does not exist? I'd still like to see it, BTW. If you understood anything at all about Christianity you would understand that our free will was given to us by God, and that it is up to us to choose what we want to do with it. Christianity must be a personal choice. As often happens when one side in a conversation puts their fingers in their ears and says "I'mrightI'mrightI'mrightI'mright..." I used to be a liberal. I also used to be an atheist, more accurately a slightly agnostic atheist. I understand the mindset better than you think. And that's the thing. Non-believers in god have no proof that he doesn't exist, but counter "well prove he does exist!". THey are the ones claiming he doesn't, so I think it's for them to prove that he doesn't, not for other to prove he does. When someone shows me one piece of evidence that these ancient gods of lore are fake, then I will pay attention. See how that works?
Don't need your guarantee. I can guarantee I won't. I just did. I won't go to hell, just like the tooth fairy won't visit me and just like there is no pot of gold on the other side of the rainbow. Are you open to the possibility that there is a pot of gold at the other end of the rainbow? If not, then you need to stop being hypocritical as you are also an extremist. Wait, do you believe that I am god? If not, you are an extremist. See how crazy your logic is? Treeman, I am god. What proof do you have that I am not god, speaking to you right now? And I will send you to hell if you don't stop acting up. Are you saying I am not god now? Apparently not. You have no proof that I am not god. Do you accept the possibility I am your lord? See how that works?
And your "guarantee" is based entirely on your faith in the nonexistence of God, not on any actual knowledge. It's you opinion expressed as gospel, and nothing less. Just like a religious extremist would do.
Seriously, I might be your god? You actually can say that's possible with a straight face? Give me a break. Talk about irrationality. You are just taking a b.s. position in an effort to maintain the logic of your argument. Do you realize what a ridiculous thing you just accepted as a possibility is? That I am your god? Seriously? Wow.
LOL, I am simply pointing out the irrationality - the complete illogic - of your position, and you didn't even realize it. This is seriously Logic 101 stuff I am throwing at you, Lou. And it's flying right over your head. I keep giving you an out but you keep boxing yourself into a corner with tape all around it reading "extremist". No study exists that even comes close to proving either God's existence or nonexistence. The historical record does nothing to prove either God's existence or nonexistence. This universe is unimaginably huge, yet we have set foot on exactly one planet and its moon, have traveled within exactly one solar system, and have seen only a tiny, miniscule portion of it with our imaging technologies. And there are very likely MANY universes, each one slightly different from the rest, possibly an effectively infinite number of them. Our knowledge of reality is FAR from perfect. It's downright puny. We really, truly, don't know jack about this reality. And for you to claim with certainty - with *certainty* - that you KNOW that God does not exist is, well, laughable. Seriously, it's an absurd position to take given the lack of knowledge we have. It is EXACTLY as absurd a position to take as one claiming that they know with certainty that God *does* exist. It's not too late. Just admit that you don't know, and that you simply believe that there is no God. Own it. Stop trying to hide behind this mythical "science" that you keep claiming - yet never showing, referencing, arguing, or any other -ing - proves God's nonexistence. Admit it. You don't know. Own it. I already have. Why can't you?
You just said it's possible I am your god. And you don't think that is absurd? Look if you will bow down to me and worship me say 3 times today, then I too will accept the possibility - the one in 500 trillion billion trillion quadrillion chance that your god might be real. How's that?
Why are some atheists so incredibly eager to make it seem ridiculous to believe in (whatever kind of) God? Does it give them some kind of feeling of superiority to ridicule people who believe? Are they compensating for something (small penis (New Yorker), etc.)?
It is less absurd than saying that I know with certainty that you are/are not God, or saying with certainty that God does/does not exist. Which is your position. As usual, when the logical argument breaks down, you guys break out the mockery card, because you can't argue the logic. I'm used to it, slides right off the shoulder at this point. So I'll say it again. Admit that you don't know. It's an easy out, it's not a "surrender" or anything, you don't even have to concede the argument. Just admit that you don't know, and then we can debate the issue as equals. Right now one of us is open to debate and the other isn't. One of us admits the possibility that he can be wrong, and the other one won't. Which one is the extremist position? If you are going to hold to your absolutist position, then that is fine, but wear your Cape of Zealotry with pride, and let us see it wave in all its glory.
Stop, your post is pointless. I don't see any atheists in the thread "eargerly" trying to make it seem riduculous to believe in a deity, they simply stated their opinions about religious belief --- it is ridiculous, and they are actually pretty consistent about all religions.
I think Marcus Aurelius' wager is a far superior answer. There are only 3 possibilities. “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
