If you just want to win, you should be quite pleased with the Astros results since 1994. They have either finished 1st or 2nd every year with the exception of 2000. This is an era of winning excellence unparalled in Houston baseball sports history. Just think, for 9 out of the last 10 years the Astros have gone into the last month of the season with an opportunity to win their division. This has been done despite your contention that the Astros 'keep letting talent go'. If you would rather your favorite team make the playoffs regardless of their record, then I would suggest following hockey or basketball where mediocre teams make the playoffs every year, but if it's truly winning you want, then the last 10 years have been a boon for Houston baseball fans.
Truly winning? We haven't won a post seasons series ever! Never! The other week on the radio they cited like 14 or 15 different teams that had won a playoff series since 1998. The Sox and Cubs are probably the teams that have gone longest in not getting to the World Series but I'd bet the Astros are right behind them at number three.
I think his point was that winning a division title is actually an accomplishment in baseball, as opposed to an absolute after-thought in other sports. Particularly sports like basketball, where more teams make the playoffs than don't.
I've seen a few posts of people saying "blah blah, your not seeing the bigger picture" in defending this trade. Look, I think we all understand that a trade had to happen. If your a Drayton hater like me, you knew this was coming. But damn, Brandon "F*cking" Duckworth, how can we swallow that? If anything, we did them a favor by giving them a top flight closer, taking a disaster of a pitcher off their hands, and leaving them with other probably better prospects to move up and fill in the hole left by Sh&tworth. I just think there was a better deal out there. There must have been. If Meyers is too bright of a rising star, if Wolf is their best guy, if Millwood isn't worth what he's paid, then that leaves Padilla. I don't see how we couldn't have gotten our hands on Padilla. He had the best ERA on that team, but he was prone to meltdowns too. With all the prospects they apparently had, Padilla should have been attainable.
Just watched Larry Bowa comment on the trade on Comcast.Some of his points: [1] Said Wagner was "shocked" to be traded,even with the rumors floating around.He [Wagner] felt his comments were a major part of his being traded. [2] Bowa feels that the addition of a quality closer will have a positive impact on the FA starters out there. He mentioned Millwood,Vasquez+Colon. [I hope,as a Phillies fan,Millwood is'nt signed. He's as big a choker as some Astros fans feel Wagner was/is]. As a Phillies fan,I'm not sure how I like the trade. On one hand,he'll be a marked improvement over Mesa. On the other hand,he's at the age where he could have a significant dropoff very quick. I also still think Duckworth could be a quality starter.If it helps them sign Colon,I guess it's a good move.
back to the trade (and away from the topics that Astros fans will debate till the end of time... or until we get a world series app.) Philles phans have gone crazy over this trade... in the bad way. Apparently, they're pretty sure that if this team doesn't win (and with the Braves and Marlins in their division, its no guarantee), that management will probably start trading off the parts INCLUDING WAGNER, at midseason at the earliest. Wagner is tooo expensive for everybody... except N.Y. Phillies fans are especially irate when they could have picked up Eddie Guardardo or Billy Koch at about half the price, and not given up any prospects in return (whom they'll need if they have a fire sale). But, Wags will put asses in the seats in the new stadium... I guess they'll make out well in the short term.
Oski -- then ultimately your beef would be with Hunsicker, not McLane. McLane pays Hunsicker to negotiate with other teams..to make deals...if you don't like this deal, then blame Gerry...not Drayton. but to me...gerry has proved himself time and time again...and he wouldn't have taken anything but the best deal out there. but of course...a message board full of angry fans who weren't privy to any of the trade negotiations knows best...as always.
Well, I am 99% sure that Gerry would want to keep Wagner, while adding a decent SP. It's just impossible to with Drayton. So he did what he had to do in this case. I think the blame goes to Drayton/finances in baseball. I don't want to single out Drayton, since 28 other teams are in this situation too.
How will it help them sign Colon? I know if Millwood leaves, it helps. Did Duckworth make a lot of money?
yao -- ok..but once the decision is made, it's Gerry's job to work a trade...to see what can be had in exchange for Wagner. i'm saying, if you don't like the end result...and you think they could have gotten more for Wagner...then your complaint should be directed towards Gerry...not Drayton. Blame Drayton all you want for dumping the salary..but if the results of the trade aren't as good as you think they could be, blame Gerry.
McLane sets the payroll, not Hunsicker but way to analyze the situation. Hunsicker has done some nice things in the past so he must have done a great thing here. What wisdom and insight!
It's cause and effect though... Fact: if Drayton didn't set a somewhat restrictive budget, Gerry more than likely would not have traded Wagner right? I do think we didn't get that much, player-wise in the trade. However, if Wagner's offloaded contract allows the Astros to sign 1-2 good players, then I'm all for it. Wagner's contract was too high for our middle of the road payroll. In a perfect world, Gerry wouldn't have to worry about cutting salary first in order to add to the payroll. But all things considered, this is a great move if we can add Pettite or even Clemens somehow.
I think $ in the end matters. Also, pitchers might be skeptical about pitching at their new park. Who knows if it's a hitter's park or pitcher's park.
I realize that however I don't think it was fairly framed. We've about run out the course for this core of players and during that time we've not won a single playoff series. We consistently traded off parts of the core to retool payroll and maintain flexibility and though we've maintained a certain level of play for a long time there's been no real payoff. Also, during this run this division has been mostly crap. The Pirates, Reds, Cubs, and Brewers have mostly been crap teams for a long time.
Amen i felt the same way your feeling know when they traded D Ward .Astros management hasn't cared for a long time about winning is't All about the $. I boycotted last year next year won't be any different unless they do something major to get a lot of the fans they've lost.
Let's say the Astros did spend money one year, and we didn't make the playoffs. Then we'd find ourselves into a big debt, where we'd have to make a huge fire sale. The same fans who are bi+ching right now about the Astors being cheap would be even more pissed off when the Astros would have to unload every player making more than 2 mill. So I ask you this, should we go balls out one winter? If we do that, then there's a great chance that we have to re-build the next offseason and play minor leaguers who aren't ready. We'd basically be the Expos, if we started spending one offseason. Our farmsystem is medicore right now. Would Astros fans be able to handle losing 75-90 games because we went for broke the year before? I say no. Our attendance would be pathetic.
