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Astros pushed for Andy/Pettite and Clemens were "frustrated with Astros team culture"

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Oski2005, Dec 5, 2007.

  1. gunn

    gunn Contributing Member

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    Which is what you guys original contention was based off of Aces comment.
     
  2. msn

    msn Member

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    They were listed, in bulleted form, in response to someone's standard whine about different players who left the team.

    No, that $100M was very real, and every penny was paid out. The "slight of hand" is your pathetic attempt to explain it away by acting like Jeff Bagwell's contract doesn't count. It's amazing how you keep accusing me of the things you are doing.

    Precisely. You haven't listed anything. Yet you accuse others who have of not doing so. Pathetic. And I predict you'll continue to ignore the various facts that have been posted, or else attempt to dismiss them while accusing others of sidestepping the issue!
     
  3. Major

    Major Member

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    You claimed he was incessantly whining about it. Your evidence is one apparent quote from 2005 when he said the Astros would be in the black that year. So the only quote you have that he incessently whines about losing money is one time when he said he wasn't losing money.

    Huh? :confused:
     
  4. Jared Novak

    Jared Novak Contributing Member

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    Yep.

    Because he said it was the first time the Astros would be in the black since he owned the team.

    Why continue to own an asset when you contend that it is losing you money? Why would billionaire businessman McLane continue to hold on to the Astros if they ae burning a hole in his wallet?
     
  5. Major

    Major Member

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    No one has claimed that though. People have claimed its run like a business. Those are not at all the same thing.
     
  6. gunn

    gunn Contributing Member

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    It doesn't count when you use it as a fact to show that Drayton is going the extra mile to improve this team. It's not an improvement when it was known that said player was never going to take the field. It was a backloaded, ballooned contract for a player that was done. Thats not an improvement.
    The contract was paid. But so was mail clerk's. Why don't you add him to the total payroll too.
     
  7. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Roman Abramovich, Russian billionaire and owner of English soccer/football club Chelsea, has spent close to 300 million pounds, that's 600 million dollars, on players in the last few years. Thats out of his pocket.

    Both sides seem to be overstating the reality of the situation. Billionaire owners do spend money 'out of their pockets' to buy talent. When Steinbrenner bought the Yankees for something like 12 million bucks he put a lot of his own money into the organization. Once they became flush with success he continued to dump the organization's gain/profit back into the organization. The Yankees don't really 'make' that much money because they take all the profit from the network etc and put it back into the organization. That IS money from Steinbrenner's pocket because he could be like other owners and take that money home. Instead he has a win at all cost attitude which includes taking money from his own pocket if necessary. The same can be said from other owners such as Mark Cuban, who has paid quite a bit of cash out of his own pocket to revamp the Mavericks, from the Dolans, who have pissed away hundreds of millions in bad deals, or DeAngelos is Baltimore.

    The flip side is how long can you do that if you aren't in a major market, and that issue is undeterminable. If the Astros followed that model they could be the dominant team in the Houston, San Antonio, New Orleans, Oklahoma, New Mexico, even Dallas markets, among others.
     
  8. Major

    Major Member

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    So where's the incessant whining about losing money? You still haven't provided that. I can't imagine him saying one time that he's not losing money is what you were thinking of as "incessant whining about losing money".

    Clearly, you're not a businessman. There are plenty of reasons to do it when the asset changes in value.
     
  9. Major

    Major Member

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    So you knew 8 years ago that a 35-yr old Jeff Bagwell was going to suffer a career ending degenerative shoulder 6 years later?
     
  10. msn

    msn Member

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    First of all, it counts regardless. Second of all, I never said he's "going the extra mile to improve the team."

    Agreed! In fact, I beat you to it. I have already mentioned the overhead and other employees once in this thread.
     
  11. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    When Drayton and Bagwell agreed to the contract, where they aware that the last couple of seasons would be ones where Bagwell wouldn't take the field?
     
  12. msn

    msn Member

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    Touché. You found one example.

    So does every owner at first; that proves nothing.

    And so does every organization; they just don't generate that kind of revenue.

    Unfounded, inaccurate hogwash. You act like owning an ML franchise is some kind of financial windfall, when that is far from the case.

    No, it doesn't. The Yankees organization supports itself; Steinbrenner doesn't support it from his own pocket! Holy crap, I can't believe anyone would believe such nonsense.

    None of these covered expenses "from their own pockets". Not a one.
     
  13. Major

    Major Member

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    Also, since you know these things in advance, can you tell us what to expect from Berkman and Lee in terms of health over the next 5-6 years of their contracts?
     
  14. msn

    msn Member

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    Werd. Maybe also let us know if Lance will pack on 30 extra lb's. Then maybe we should spin him off to the Giants, along with Burke, for Lincecum. :D
     
  15. gunn

    gunn Contributing Member

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    You have to put the point in context with the original assertion.
     
  16. Major

    Major Member

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    Is Chelsea a profitable company?

    Yes - it's called an initial investment. Most business owners do this.

    This is total nonsense. The company generates the income and incurs the expenses. If the expenses are higher in a given year, the business takes out debt to pay for it and then pays that back with future profits. The reward for Steinbrenner's initial investment when he first bought the team is in the increased value of the team. He's not paying anything out of his pocket on a yearly basis.


    No, he doesn't.

    No, he hasn't.
     
  17. msn

    msn Member

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    Trying to wiggle your way out of it again, eh?

    Your argument here is stupid. The quicker you can abandon it and let it die, the better off you'll be.
     
  18. Major

    Major Member

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    What on earth is your original assertion? You're just complaining about random things with no rhyme or reason. When your argument is blown up, you change it up or move onto something completely unrelated.

    Why don't you try this - summarize the argument you are trying to make in one, longer coherent post instead of all these one-line nonsense things that address a multitude of unrelated things. Tell us exactly what your assertion is and then explain the reasoning behind it.
     
  19. msn

    msn Member

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    Nah, he "didn't come here to post facts."
     
  20. gunn

    gunn Contributing Member

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    I didn't see any quotes. Besides that, you had no problem listing "100 million dollar payroll" as one of the reasons behind showing that Drayton spends the money to improve the team. Paying injured players doesn't count as an improvement.
     

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