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Astros pushed for Andy/Pettite and Clemens were "frustrated with Astros team culture"

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Oski2005, Dec 5, 2007.

  1. gunn

    gunn Contributing Member

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    Am I right? Nice diversion tactics. "It really wasn't 100 million worth of actual players that took the field and contributed to the team, but lets make it look like it was to boost my argument."
     
  2. texanskan

    texanskan Contributing Member

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    Who do I trust more Drayton or Andy?

    Let's see Andy.

    Andy was going to take less money to stay here (split the difference in the yankee/astro offer) and wanted the OPTION on the second season.

    What did Andy do after year number 1, he DECLINED the option because he was not ready to make a decision. Everyone on this board was like "Andy is done" "screw him and Clemens" "there is no way he would decline a player option"

    Well Astro fans need to rethink their position on this issue because looking back Drayton looks cheap and classless and Andy looks honest.
     
  3. Major

    Major Member

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    No - you're not right. The payroll was $100 million. You're adding caveats to boost your own argument. Namely that, due to a career ending injury 6-years after signing a contract, we should pretend that money is not an actual cost to the Astros despite them having to pay it. Again, you're acting like this isn't and shouldn't be run like a business, despite the fact that it is the very definition of a business.
     
  4. Major

    Major Member

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    I fully agree that the Astros should have signed Pettitte. That was a stupid decision - that has nothing to do with whether Drayton is a cheapskate owner. He simultaneously spent $17MM on a hitter (which I also thought was a bad move at the time).

    As for who you should "trust" - no one is suggesting you trust Drayton's words. Drayton hasn't even talked about finances in years. Just look at his actual actions. It's easy to see. There's no "hiding" or lying or anything like that - these are factual, public actions. Signings, payroll numbers, other team's payroll numbers, etc.
     
  5. msn

    msn Member

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    Nope.

    Actually, pretty poor diversion tactics on your part. The fact of the matter is Drayton McLane spent well over $100M on his payroll in 2006. Players have season-ending injuries all the time; it's ridiculous to arbitrarily remove one guy's salary figure because he was hurt. The money was spent in an attempt to make the Astros better, and that's the bottom line.
     
  6. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Pettitte declined the player option with the understanding that he could go back to the Yankees at the previous contract level.

    "Cashman said Pettitte called him and they spoke for 10-20 minutes. Pettitte has a standing offer of $16 million he can accept at any time. Cashman wouldn't discuss whether the team would entertain a new deal."

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3096412

    Certainly looks like a win-win situation for Pettitte. Although he declined his option, he can pick it right back up if he wants.
     
  7. Jared Novak

    Jared Novak Contributing Member

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    IMHO there is a legitimate gripe with McLane.

    Its not that he doesn't spend money, he's proved that he'll spend when we're close, i.e. Pettitte, Clemens, Lee, extending Oswalt, etc. McLane wants to win and win on a a budget.

    The problem is that McLane has continued to whine about how much money he has lost since owning the Astros. If he is such a savvy businessman, why continue to own an asset that is a money pit? McLane promised to open the books and show that he had lost money as he contended when challenged that he wasn't losing money. Then we were told that Selig forbade him to open the books. So how is it that with a new stadium, concessions from food, drinks, parking, merchandise, radio and television revenues, MLB profit-sharing, etc. has McLane lost money?

    The other beef that I have with McLane was the draft last season. Purpura lack of moves and faliure to makeup for the teams shortcomings was his doing, but it certainly looks like McLane set him up to fail. Not allowing Purpura to offer arbitration to Clemens, Pettitte, and Springer prevented us from getting 1st round picks and compensatory picks. With the signings of Lee and Williams we lost our own 1st and compensatory picks.

    The failure to sign our own 3rd and 4th round picks was ridiculous and only hurt the farm system. Drafting Chad Jones (a known high risk signing) and saying the day after the draft that it was pretty much known what his demands were and that the Astros wouldn't meet said demands. In total the Astros spent $1.58 million on the entire draft last season. This upcoming draft we'll have the 10th overall pick, the bonus for last year's 10th pick was $2 million and the salary slot was $1.8 million, thats over double what they spent the entire last draft on just one player. At that Selig was encouraging teams to sign players under the salary slot. So is McLane going to allow Wade to draft the players with the most talent, or "signable" players? And will McLane balk at the price it will cost to sign the drafted players?

    McLane talks about building a champion and then in his next breath wants to tell us about financial loss and the financial stability. IMO its this kind of talk that soured Pettitte and Clemens on the Astros' "winning" attitude. McLane will spend the money, its just that he moans and groans about it when he does.
     
  8. texanskan

    texanskan Contributing Member

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    the bottom line is that in a world of greed Andy has values and I trust what he says. Houston is my hometown and if I were Andy I would of pitched in New York and then come down here as a free agent as well because it is my home but if I would of been jacked around I would of left as well.

    Andy's signing brought Roger and in three season we won 3 playoff series in the other 40+ season for the Astros they have won 0
     
  9. Major

    Major Member

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    Please find a quote anytime in the last 4 or 5 years to this effect. I don't think he's said anything except for things along the lines that "we're going to have a reasonable payroll" over this period.

    I'd say you're blaming him for quotes referring to the 1990's.

    Have we ever heard that it was Drayton that declined arbitration as opposed to Purpura not wanting to offer it?
     
  10. gunn

    gunn Contributing Member

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    Of course, now I see it. You guys are right despite not having any legitimate facts to back up your assertions based on wild homerism, and I am wrong for calling you out on it. Thank you so much for showing me the light.
     
  11. Jared Novak

    Jared Novak Contributing Member

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    After the 2005 NLCS when we made it to the World Series, McLane said that with the revenues he would make from the World Series that it would be the first time the Astros would be in the black. I'll look back and see if I can find the quote in the paper, but it was vintage McLane.
     
  12. msn

    msn Member

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    This is an amazing post. I've listed facts in this thread, others have listed facts in this thread, you've listed none. You are now accusing us (and namecalling) of the very thing that you alone are doing! It's not the pot calling the kettle black, it's the soot-laden pot calling the freshly cleaned linen black! Wow, man. Just wow.
     
  13. Major

    Major Member

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    You're on your 10th or 15th post here and you have yet to provide a single fact or argument of substance, legitimate or not. You're actually here telling other people that they haven't provided legitimate facts?
     
  14. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    It's about ****ing time.

    Wow, what damning evidence that is! What a flippin' whiner he is! :rolleyes:
     
  15. Jared Novak

    Jared Novak Contributing Member

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    If you like to hear a billionaire talk about losing money incessantly, then more power to you.
     
  16. gunn

    gunn Contributing Member

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    What facts? Your slight of hand 100 million dollar payroll? I haven't listed anything because that was not what I came in here to do. All I have ever wanted was for you guys to show me some numbers that show if Drayton increased the payroll he will be losing money.
     
  17. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    The last time you can even remember him saying anything about it was two years ago and from what you posted, it's not even that bad. If you call that incessant, then what do you call the whining by the anti-Drayton people?
     
  18. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    Can you explain how Drayton caused or knew that Jeff Bagwell's injury would occur? Thanks!
     
  19. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Your post seemed to indicate that Pettitte did a noble thing for the Yankees by declining the player option 2nd year of his Yankee contract. My post is simply letting it be shown that Pettitte can essentially pick up his player option for the entire 16 million whenever he wants. In other words, it is no big deal that he declined the option. He opted out of it KNOWING that he could opt back in for the same amount of money. Where are the "values" and nobility in that?
     
  20. Jared Novak

    Jared Novak Contributing Member

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    McLane has owned the team since 1992. In that time he has talked about money this and moeny that several times. Because my quote was from two years ago you disregard it. Now you're being naive.

    I think the anti-Drayton people should look at the signings he has allowed, but they are correct in the arguments that they make that McLane can be cheap at times, see not signing Pettitte last season and the 2007 MLB Draft.
     

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