Astros' player makes racist gesture during game

I see your point but...I don't know, I think racism and the pain of racism is felt universally by any culture that was dominated by another country at some point. Japan may be the sole exception since it wasn't ever conquered.

The difference in the U.S. is that we are such a heterogeneous society that affected what is considered cultural dialogue. The right likes to call this "PC" but in reality it reflects a level of empowerment of minorities who demand to be treated with a certain level of respect.

 

So, I have a question. Assume the Dodgers joke around and make fun of their teammates in a good natured, locker room ribbing kind of way. And, let's assume further that they make fun of Darvish due to his nationality. If Darvish pitched a great game and after being removed in the 7th inning (for example), they all celebrated his greatness by doing what Gurriel did - is it still a problem?

 

To me, that's a case where it is one person who is involved. Darvish knows the other players. I can't imagine that even so, he would be okay with them mocking his nationality especially knowing that he feels he was treated differently because of his Persian ancestry while he was in Japan. But if they are the only ones around and Darvish didn't care, then I would guess no harm done. Because nobody else is involved.

 

By the way, I am neither condoning nor excusing Gurriel's behavior. It was inexcusable and ignorant (especially in today's environment). The main problem I have with his suspension is that he got 5 games while Matt Joyce got 2 games and he called a fan a "f**g*t". Now, perhaps there was a lot of behind the scenes maneuvering such that, it won't be the World Series but in order to do so you have to accept a 5 game suspension and not appeal.

 

That gesture is offensive not because of power struggle or oppression. As an Asian it's offensive no matter who does it because it essentially just insults Asian for being ugly for having slanty small eyes. Add that to the fact that Asians don't particular find having small eyes a good trait themselves, which is why Asian girls get plastic surgeries to make their eyes bigger, or at least put on make up to make their eyes look bigger. It's a sensitive issue because we don't like being called ugly for something we can't control. That's about it.

people are overthinking it, with all the discussions about oppression and context or whatever. Just stop reminding me I have small slanty eyes okay, I know they don't look good, stop doing it.

 

It is perhaps too easy for white Americans to forgive racism directed at other peoples. Darvish has indicated he wants to move on from it and make it a learning opportunity instead of castigating Gurriel, so I'm inclined to follow his moral lead on it. But Gurriel didn't only insult Darvish but a whole ethnic group. Should I really be saying Gurriel is okay because Darvish said so when millions of others impacted might not be so keen to forgive? I don't expect Gurriel to bow his head in shame for the rest of his life or anything, but I'm not going to do anything to cover up the shame and make him feel better about himself either.

Yes. Darvish can think its great, but there are millions of people who are watching. They aren't all in on the joke in the same way. And how will people perceive Darvish that they see him accept the slur and smile? Does he actually like it, or is he just going along to get along? Should all Asians therefore go along to get along? When you are in private and in community with one another, many things are permissible. When you are in public, you can't pretend the audience doesn't see you or doesn't matter. Keep the slurs out of the public sphere.

 

Of all the threads, how is this one still alive? LOL

 

The example I used was from Imperial Japan. I agree with you 100% that racism is racism. I have agreed with that from the beginning.

 

I think a major take away from this is individual actions don't define a human's existence.

What he did was racist. There is no walking around it. However, what he did doesn't make his entire being a 'racist piece of ****' that many around the country are starting. One data point doesn't make someone a racist piece of ****. He could just be very ignorant and Darvish probably understands that also and why he isnt angry about it.

I have friends who've casually joked about my race before I was actual friends with them. If this was a pattern from them that had malice intent of course I wouldn't turn out to be friends with them. Those people just weren't used to hanging out with a brown dude.

 

If they did it on the field, dugout or anywhere where it was done publicly I would say yes.

Many people engage in insulting and mocking each other as a way of bonding and this is especially true of teams. What is done privately with close friends / teammates doesn't mean it would be acceptable to the wider public because most people aren't part of that context. Consider the "N" word whether ending in an "er" or "a". The context of how and who uses it matters and even then among black people it is still very controversial.

 

This is a good point. I don't know Gurriel personally but am willing to give him the benefit of doubt. Further since Darvish seemed so willing to forgive my guess is among ball players Yuli isn't considered a bad guy. It was a dumb, thoughtless and immature. As an Asian I'm not happy about it but at the same time I'm willing to forgive him and accept his apology.

On a personal note I won't rule out my own bias a Stros' fan and can't say for certain how I would feel if this was the other way around. I was offended by Shaq's comments mocking Yao and was critical when Steve Kerr called Yao a "Chinaman". I don't recall saying Shaq should be suspended or Kerr fired. I think this is one where being gracious and accepting an apology is important too.

 

Serious question, why do you support the NBA? The NBA and it's players have a ton of history towards unfair treatment to Asians without any real backlash or effort. No protesting, no kneeling, absolutely not a goddman thing. With USA history of Asian citizens, Japan Nukes, etc... I would think as principled and loud as you are you would not watch or support the NBA at all. And yet here you are on an Rockets & NBA forum. Yet you incessantly go after and criticize other sports and other players actions.

 

Again, I think you are making something up here.

 

I agree with Chowd on this. One data point could be an outlier. I haven't been thrilled about being called a racist because I don't denounce every trump action but I also realize that it the world we live in these days. It is rare to not piss someone off in these viral days.

 

No apostrophe necessary unless you're shortening it to 'Stros

Not Astro's or Astros'

 

I don't think so. You and a few others were all over Yuli's ass for a insensitive silly mistake. But the NBA and it's players which has treated Asians much worse hasn't stopped you from loving the association. Why no marches, kneeling, outrage for those players. Why no ribbon, special months, etc... for those players?!?!

I don't care about haven't those things but I also didn't accuse Yuli of being racist like you did.

 

I never accused him of being a racist. In fact, I stated he was not. I think you need to be less reckless with your accusations.

You are guilty of putting words in people's mouths. Your ranting at the wrong person bub

 

i don't have to search but i clearly remember you posting "i don't think he's racist but i don't know him so can't say for sure" or some bs like that. just own your words dude.

 

Nope your memory fails you. Still not sure what your beef is with whomever did write that if anyone