I see Straily as being ahead of him. Woj...I see him needing to pitch regularly in AAA versus sporadic long relief outings. I doubt the Astros are going to the playoffs, but I expect them to operate like they are in playoff chase at start of season within reason. I suspect he was uncomfortable not being the likely fifth starter and that the Astros wanted to use him to eat innings in relief when the starter falters. If Astros are out of playoffs by deadline, he would have been a nice person to trade.
This isn't 2011. We're past the point where we need to throw stuff against a wall and see what sticks. If they went to camp and Straily beat out Vogelsong for the 5th starter spot or long man I'm totally fine with that. But I would still have liked the option of Vogelsong in case he didn't. Make those fringe guys earn their way on to the team. Successful teams are low variance teams. With so many high variance, unproven starters like Keuchel and McHugh I preferred to have another guy who you knew what he'd produce.
But that's sort of the point. The only way to find out if these minor leagues are going to be any good is to have a rotation spot for them. There doesn't seem to be a lot of point to signing a 37 yr old guy to a one year deal for that spot. Barring extended injuries, you'd just end up going into the next offseason still not knowing if any of the minor league guys are going to be any good. One of the nice things about what they are doing with the offense is that they are giving themselves flexibility to try young guys and be able to move pieces around depending on who does or doesn't work out. If Singleton sucks, put Gattis and Carter at 1B/DH. If he's great, move Gattis to LF, etc. With the pitching staff, Vogelsong takes away flexibility if you lock him into a rotation spot. Based on his comments about needing a sweetener, I wonder if in part the Astros weren't willing to guarantee that he'd stay a starter.
I don't see looking at him as not giving guys a chance. If they can't beat him out, they don't deserve to be in majors.
It's the exception, not the rule, that prospects are handed a starting spot without outperforming a veteran player. Most starting pitcher prospects make it to the big leagues as spot starters or injury replacements first.
Yea maybe so, but if Vogelsong never said that i'm pretty sure he would comment on Drellich saying that about him
Forgive my slowness, but I just had a tough time trying to decipher what the hell Vogelsong was trying to say.
lol. me too. he's trying to throw them under the bus in a cryptic way, for nothing specific. he also is talking as if he's the hottest FA on the market. somebody let him know that nobody gives a crap about him.
He is saying he didn't like the Astros after meeting with them. This isn't the first time that the Astros brain trust has been called "uncomfortable". My guess is that the Astros not being terribly successful the last few years is part of it, but I think there is more to it.
I don't think it was too complicated. He thought he was more valuable than he is. He assumed if he was going to lower himself to playing with the lowly Astros than he should be guaranteed a spot in the rotation. The Astros said f-that, we want you to compete for a spot in the rotation, maybe come out of the pen, and the notion that the pathetic Astros would suggest that offended him.
The internal options for the fifth starter (aka stuff aka ****) are: Jake Buchanan (age 25) Samuel Deduno (age 32) Brad Peacock (age 26) Dan Straily (age 26) Alex White (age 26) Asher Wojciechowski (Age 26) All except Wojciechowski have MLB experience. All are young except for Deduno and have not reached their prime. Having an old fart like Ryan Vogelsong (age 37) stealing development time from this group would only make sense if the Astros were contenders next year which they are decidedly not. The Astros are shooting to be 500 team, an average team. Fifth starters on average teams are below average starters. Developing one of our young guns this year as the fifth starter make sense. The upside is that the Astros will have a contributing, inexpensive pitcher when they do compete next or a solid trade chip to use to fill out a contending roster.
I think it is very obvious this is it! Look I'm as big if an Astros fan as you will find, and I hope Luhnow and the boys build this into a long term championship winner. But anyone who refuses to believe that this front office treats people differently and many in the industry don't like them is fooling himself Just hope it never costs us a big transaction losing out on guys like RV won't really set us back
Sure - but that decision is normally made out of necessity rather than choice. Very few teams embark on the multi-year rebuilding process. They try to convince their fans that every year is a competitive one, and so they have to get those fringe veteran starters. If Keuchel is on a competitive team, he's probably never discovered because he doesn't get to stay in the rotation for 3 years. Straily experienced that in Oakland. The Astros, on the other hand, do have the luxury of having a spot to try to find a starter and give him some time. This may be the last year they have that opportunity in this rebuilding experiment and they should take full advantage of it.
Do they? The difference between 20-24 starts of a 5.2era starter vs a 4.2 era starter could easily be 6 wins, which could separate 82 wins from 76 wins. I seriously doubt any fan in Oakland (or New York/LA) laments the fringe prospect that never developed while the big league club made playoff runs. There's a reason Oakland is quick to dump the Peacock's and Straillys of the world; it's really hard to hand a starting spot to a fringe player while contending. This is obviously more of a philosophical discussion on where each of us thinks the Astros are in the rebuild. I think the Astros needs to cumulate/play more knowns at this point because the cornerstones are still volatile.
I think the point is that, while you risk giving up a 4.2 and getting a 5.2, you also give yourself the potential of finding a young 4.2 (or even a 3.2 if you get lucky, though we all know that a Keuchel/McHugh season out of nowhere are unlikely). So you're right that the risk you described is out there. But we have another year of taking a risk like that to evaluate--we might get those 6 wins back, we might get 12 instead of 6...and yeah we might lose 6 based on this decision. But given that those 6 wins are 37 years old and gone, I'd rather give ourselves a shot at finding them from a younger guy. 82 vs 76 isn't contending,
