Exactly I don't see why people here are just floored by the amount of money being dished out. Every year we see the same pattern and guess what folks it’s not going to get any better and you know why? MLB is making tons of money and the teams who are dishing out the dough are making tons of money putting power hitters and power pitchers on their teams for god insane amounts…. But you know what they are going to get that back just off of attendance and Jersey sales alone.. I’m not surprised at all what the top tier spenders are doing.. I’m just surprised we can’t even come close.. Come on 5 year 12 per for Carlos Lee starting?? Timmy P wake up its’ going to take a lot more than that.. By the way I was one of the few who Wanted C Beltran to stay for that kind of money even though 90 percent of this board was like whoa whoa that’s insane blah blah blah.. Looking at the market and where it’s headed it looks like a damn steal.
From CNNSI.com In the wake of the $136 million, eight-year contract the Cubs gave Alfonso Soriano, a bidding war has ensued between the Astros and the Orioles for outfielder Carlos Lee. -- New York Daily News http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/11/21/truth.rumors.mlb/index.html
Negotiate? what kind of Negotiating tactic is that to say your so cheap you don't want even to be on the playing field with the other teams.. How about I go to a Lexus Dealership and say Yeah I like that big Nice Sedan right there and I would like to offer about 25,000 dollars starting... For a 65,000 car... Wake up.. I have no problem negotiating as long as we have a starting resonable offer.. I'm pretty sure Carlos and his Agent just laughed at that offer.
There's a quote from Purp in one of these threads that's directed squarely at this mindset. I'd also like to add...we have exactly zero idea what's going on with any of the FA negotiations, no idea what's being discussed, who's discussing it, what's offered by whom, to whom, for how much, for how long...nothing. You *could* relax, sit back & see what happens, but I guess the lure of pre-emptive b!tching is mighty strong.
Maybe I missed it, but where was it stated that the Astros opening offer for Lee was 5 years 60 million (which is really what he's worth, even though I'm sure the Astros offered more than that)?
Using your negotiating technique ($25,000 for a $65,000 car), you were offering a bit more than 1/3 of what the car is worth. Do you think the Astros offered 1/3 or so of what Lee is worth? Does that mean that you think an offer of $12,000,000/year should be more like $30,000,000/year? Offering $25,000 for a $65,000 car is ridiculous, but a starting point of $12,000,000/year for a player that MAY command $14-$15,000,000 is certainly not out of line or something to laugh at.
take it for what its worth, but I could swear I heard on the radio on my way into work on ESPN here in San Diego that Philly was close to signing Carlos Lee. I would have thought they meant Baltimore if anything, but hopefully the rumors of him being close to signing with either are not true. We need this guy, but I'll agree with many that he is not worth the Soriano deal.
We gave him a starting offer of 12 million which is more than reasonable. Or if you want we can use the Tom Hicks school of negotiation and just give an absurd starting bid that's 40 million more than the nearest team. (ala the A-Rod deal) I'd prefer the Astros' tactics.
I still don't see a drastic difference between teams that have budgets/fiscally sound (Cardinals, Astros, Padres, Tigers) versus the ones that spend all out no matter what (Yankees, Mets, Red Sox). Sure, salaries have gone up big-time... and I think it has more to do with team's operating revenues being at an all-time high (thanks to higher attendance, great TV deals, new stadiums all around). Not sure it has much to do with parity... you still don't see the Royals, Pirates, or even Brewers opening up their wallets (even though two of those teams have new stadiums). But, there doesn't seem to be that distinct "mid-market" team anymore... they're either really really big spenders, or just simply big spenders who spend wisely (ie - the Astros and Cardinals both could overpay for a Soriano... but they choose not to).
Wow Bob If you couldnt understand what I was stating about the example I brought about the Sedan then forget it... Maybe it was a bad example... All I'm saying is this guy is going to command at least close to 100Mill contract.. we offered 60Mill a little over half of that?.. Do you think his Agent or Carlos for that example is going to think we are really serious about this guy when the next teams is gonna be offering something in the 75+ mil range (STARTING) .. We offered just a little over half of what he's going to get... Thats not serious and if you people don't see that then don't b$@% in the season when the Astros can't get runs, cannot get any run support, cannot get anybody on base.... or Cannot sign a big bat.. Yes obviously we don't know how the negotiating is doing I'm basing this on purely speculations and some little facts that were thrown out there verbally by Tim with the 12mil per 5 yr.... You need to stop talking about per year dollars like 12mill per, and 14-15 mil per and look at the overall pay.. Becuase when all is said and done the Agent is going to say yeah thats 60 million and thats 100 million... or 70mil or 95mil you get the point... And please people stop it withe he's not worth that yada yada yada.. Who the hell is worth all that playing a game... It's all relative to the market situation..... And the Market right now statest thats a normal price.. Stop comparing it to pay scales of 20 + years ago or even just 5 years ago... 5 years down the road salaries are going to get bigger.. I hate it, yes I do.. but if you wan't to be competitive you have to spend the money.. If you want to get lucky then just rely on your farm system.. If you want to make money through revenue sharing just be like the Florida Marlins lol
My point was that it was a bad example. I will do a tip jar wager with you. I will wager $25 to the tip jar that Carlos Lee does not sign a base contract worth $90+ million dollars (I consider $90 million "close" to a $100 million dollar contract).
While I see your point, Carlos Lee is not worth 17 mill per year under any circumstanses. If the Astros final offer in 15 mill per year on average, that only brings his total to 90 mill over 6 years. 5 years @ 15 mill is a mere 75 mill. Seems to me that a 100mill threshold is way too high unless its longer than 6 six years which I would not advice offering.
I agree. Soriano's deal averages out to $17 million per year. No way does Lee command that much and I seriously doubt he gets anything over 5 years.
From 790's sports ticker: Negotiations have heated up with the Astros and Carlos Lee - figures reported: 6 years 80 million.
They said it was over 80 million... also, per the Astros policy of NOT LEAKING THIS INFO, this was likely put out there by the Lee camp. Meaning, they're fishing for a bigger offer... if somebody offers something slightly bigger, we'll see how much he "really wants to come back to Texas." If I were the Astros, I wouldn't go much higher... pitching is still more important, and if we don't get some quality arms locked up this year (ie - Andy, Roger, Woody, Suppan, or Kip), they'll need flexibility at mid-season or next year (and Lee not living up to a huge deal like this doesn't afford such flexibility).
That always seems to be the rule rather than the exception in the new era of "gimme championship right now". One thing to note, how many of these teams of recent have won world series'? Mets, Yanks, Red Sox, Orioles and Phillies? Red Sox of course in the last 5 years only one. Yes, we have to do something about bolstering our pathetic offense. Lee while at best is an average outfielder defensively, he potentially MORE than makes up for offensively. Having him in the lineup to keep Lance from being constantly walked around would help immensely for our club. Yes, I agree ... do something Timmy even if it's wrong. We cant stand pat this offseason or else Timmy needs to seek employment elsewhere. A Carl Crawford, Barry Zito and or a Dontrelle Willis would be extremely helpful. Having "Bags'" contracts off the books should help give us more leverage in negotiating to bring in "prime time" talent.
