Problem is I don't think Andy or Roger is going to sign with the Astros if we don't sign a big bat. I really doubt Roger wants to come into a scenario where we tied on 0 runs and all we needed was 1!!! run.... How many games has it been where we just needed 1 run... I mean Roger has a SICK ERA below 2.8 I think ... That means we need runs.... And by the way Lee not living up to the hype? What player guarantees that? In the pat 4 years he has had 30+ HR and 100+ RBI's if you don't call that consistant then man I don't know what a power hitter is.
First of all, stop hyperbolizing Roger's "run support" like ESPN is feeding it to you. The offense in Roger's starts was downright flukeish in 2005, but pretty average in 2006. Either way, it didn't prevent him from coming back in 2006 when the offense was just as bad (if not worse than 2005... since Ensberg and Lane sucked)... Roger will come back when/if he wants to come back (as he collects his pro-rated $22 million). Pettite is a different situation... the guy just doesn't know if he still wants to pitch. Its not a question of simply "winning" or simply money... if that was the case, he'd have already gone back to NY, or we'd at least hear something about that. Pettite has never had a trouble with run support with us, and given that he's had 1 bad season, 1 good season, and this past so-so season... the Astros don't really "owe him" anything. But its not 4 years ago... its now. We're not paying him for 4 years of performance where he's played for two other teams, we're paying him for his FUTURE (which given his body habitus, age, and the fact that he's not going to get that much better... becomes worrisome when you're paying him $15 million a year). He's been pretty consistent, which is a good thing (minimizes the "contract year" argument)... but that still doesn't mean he'll live up to a deal that has him being paid more than Berkman, Pujols, or Guerrero.
I won't discuss pitching because honestly there isnt anybody out there who is a legit 3rd or 4th option... Please look up Lee's stats........ And if your worried about his fielding look at how many errors he's had.. It's pretty darn low... He's the same age as Berk and a little heaver than Berk but damn look at his RBI numbers that is what we need... But when it comes to batters of the FUTURE? Please please tell us your secret powers of Future telling... I only can think of one and that's Miguel Cabrera if he's available next year. Can you please stop talking about deals that were done before.. EVERY YEAR is a different market and that makert mainly goes up and up and up and up...You think Berkman would sign a 85mil per 6 year contract right now??? Common he's easily a 100mil dollar man.. I hate it when people use contracts in the past as a negotiator... People ... Agents and their players don't use that... They use Market Value of the presence.. Of course I don't want to pay lee 80+ mil but that is what the market is going to dictate.. YOU and I cannot change that.
So in a few posts, you've gone from "close to $100 million" to "80+ million"? How about that "close to $100 million" tipjar bet?
I understand all that... Lee is going to get paid 80-90 million by somebody. But, that still won't mean he's worth it... guys who get paid that much SHOULD be perennial MVP candidates... Lee won't magically become that at age 30. If you're settling for less, its just because you're so accustomed to so many Adrian Beltres, JD Drews, Shawn Greens, and Richie Sexons basically stealing big money from the teams that overpay them. The Astros definitely need Carlos Lee, or a Carlos Lee-type hitter... but if they don't have pitching, or don't have the money to get legit pitching after overpaying for him, then its really not going to be worth it.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/4352712.html Nov. 21, 2006, 8:18PM Astros work phones to try to land Lee By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle The Astros' pursuit of free agent slugger Carlos Lee continued Tuesday with Astros general manager Tim Purpura and the veteran outfielder's agent, Adam Katz, having multiple phone conversations. Lee is widely considered the best remaining run producer on the free agent market, which is why he already has an offer worth at least $14 million a year for five years, according to a high-ranking club official from an American League team in pursuit of Lee. The Astros aren't the team with that offer, according to multiple major-league officials. Another major-league official who has negotiated with Lee's representative also has been told that one team has put a six-year deal on the table for Lee. Purpura is connected throughout baseball, and it's a good sign for Astros fans that the Astros haven't been scared away from whatever scuttlebutt is out there regarding Lee's negotiations. Katz has not returned the multiple messages left at his office each of the last three days. As a policy, Purpura doesn't divulge specifics about his negotiations, but he has made it clear that the Astros made Lee an offer last week at the general managers' meetings in Naples, Fla. "It's ongoing, and we're trying to find a place that works for us," Purpura said of the Lee negotiations. "It's hard. Again, you only know where your club stands. You don't know where anybody else's club stands. Those are tough reads." The Astros' offer to Lee exceeds $12 million a year for at least five years, according to a NL general manager. The Astros' offer hasn't changed significantly since last week. "It's essentially the same," Purpura said. "There's some variations that have been made, but essentially the same." Outfielder Alfonso Soriano, who was considered the top offensive player on the free agent market this winter, accepted an eight-year, $136 million deal from the Chicago Cubs, who also gave slugging third baseman Aramis Ramirez a five-year, $73 million deal earlier this month. Lee, a career .286 hitter, finished with a .300 batting average, 37 home runs and 116 RBIs over 161 games between the Brewers and Rangers. He is rated alongside Ramirez, and the Astros might ultimately be willing to put the parameters of their offer near Ramirez's price range. In July, Lee turned down the Milwaukee Brewers' four-year, $48 million offer. After that deal was rejected, Brewers general manager Doug Melvin traded Lee to the Texas Rangers. "He's a middle-of-the-order hitter," Melvin said of Lee. "When the game starts, he's a gamer. He's a very competitive guy. He gets a lot of big hits. He's willing to sacrifice himself as a hitter. I like Carlos. He was good with our ballclub. We made him an offer and he just wouldn't accept it." jesus.ortiz@chron.com
That Ortiz article is already "outdated" before it is even printed... Dalati is more credible, and I'll believe his report of 6 years 80+ million. Ortiz is still saying that the Astros haven't moved from 5 years 60+ million.
Ortiz=Rich Lord of the newspaper- we know more on the inside than him. The guy is a poor writer, has even worse opinions, and is just an overall bad reporter-put in Mctaggart, or better yet, steal Footer away from astros.com. Back to topic, in this market in which the juan pierres of the world are getting 9 mill/year, 6/80 looks to me. Don't really know how good his "clutch hitting" numbers are, but he puts the ball in play, which bodes well for our man on 3rd and less than 2 out situations.
call me crazy, but i think i'd rather pass on Lee for the kind of money over the time period that people are talking about. Unless we can work in a buy out after three years . . . we will be screwed in 2010. I know, win now . . . Roger won't come back unless we find a bat . . . Roger ain't gonna do us much good if he is our number 2 after roy (that, alone, is a big drop off - not to mention the drop off to the rest of the staff behind roger). I really don't see everyone's desire to land an overpaid outfielder. We have done fine the past two years because of our pitching (which is taking a big hit this off season - even if andy and roger come back). We need to be tossing money at some pitchers and get active on the trade market. Find out what it will take to pry Willis out of florida. Get Woody in here for cheap. Convince Andy that he can take a lesser role on the staff . . . see if he wants the roger travel deal. Sign some no name guys to replace willy t and burke. Make it to April with the best starting line up in baseball and see if roger wants to make another run. I would much rather lose a game 0 - 1 because we couldn't put together a couple of hits than lose a game 5 - 12 because our staff got hammered by the other guys. At best, Lee knocks in an extra run or two a game (AT BEST). That doesn't fix the 6,7,8 hitters (and our pitcher hitting away). Convince me one bat can turn a poor hitting team around and i will still wonder how much pitching we could buy for 15 - 17 mil over the next 6 years.
Anyone know if the Astros are still looking at Gary Mathews Jr.? I haven't heard anything about him since the report that we contacted his agent.
Okay, sign Gary Matthews, Jr. Sign Woody. Sign Bengie Molina. Trade Taveras or Pence and Hirsch to Florida for Dontrelle. Re-sign Andy. Go to war with those guys Matthews, Jr. Burke Berkman Ensberg Scott Pence Bengie Everett Oswalt Dontrelle Andy Woody Whoever (Sampson or Bucholz maybe even Wheeler) Bully same guys
? Take Pujols out of the Cardinals lineup...Take Berkman out...well you get my point... It makes a huge difference.. Adding a power hitter behind another power hitter.. Man thats called safety.. Intentional walk.. You can't.....
Carlos Lee is not that "feared"... he's a step-up over Aubrey Huff, but he's never going to be as good as the contract he'll eventually get. If he winds up on the Astros, Berkman-Lee won't be the second-coming of Ortiz-Manny... but it is an improvement, and if the Astros are willing to pay it, power to them. Oh, I know... the market is dictating his contract... I just wish it was the player that was dictating it.
According to the Marlins Alyson Footer, Dontrelle and Miguel were not available for trades this offseason.
And how many games does safety win you? Let's start to think about some numbers . . . Lee will probably get a hit 2.5 times out of every 10 at bats . . . Berkman the same . . . Say each gets five at bats a game . . . that comes out to around 1.25 hits. Now, how often do you think those 2 hits out of 10 at bats (lee and berkman combined) will happen back to back? Not to mention that the the other seven hitters kinda suck. So you add Lee to our line up at 15 per. Every once and a while Lee knocks Berkman/someone else around the bases. But we end up losing the game anyway. Why you ask? We would still be a poor hitting team, and now we don't have any starting pitching for the next few years. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Lee hitting behind Lance. . . just get a handle on our pitching situation first . . . then go out and lock up as many overweight outfielders you can find.
Believe me guys if there was a upper echelon pitcher out there I would be all over it problem is there isnt anybody...And if there was don't you think the top tier spenders would be all over that guy also.. Its all over the news how this free agency is very low on starting pitching... Let's say Dontrelle is a free agent ( God I wish ) I'm telling you right now he would definately be a 100Million contract, will the Stros sign that? Were talking about Woody Williams with an ERA of 3.5+ Um we can't even get runs to support Roger,Oswalt how can we support Woody? Question for everyone is there a website where we can see who will be a free agent when their contract expires...I would like to see who might be available in 07... If Miguel Cabrera is up for 07 Astros needto do everything in there power to get him...
I'll take an ERA of 4 any day. We need some warm bodies that are experienced. Pulling up 4 guys from RoundRock leaves too many questions. Sign 2 or 3 guys with an ERA around 4 and I would be happy. We wouldn't be able to support Williams, but we won't be able to support him with Lee in the line up either. We haven't even really touched on Lee's defense. It kinda scares me to think we might be manning the corners with Scott and Lee . . . two guys not known for their athletic prowess. When I'm hoping for Willis . . . it is not him specifically, but a trade to fill the second or third spot in the rotation. I understand that he is "not available," but tim still needs to make the phone call.
This made me laugh. Ortiz may not be a very good sportswriter, but Alyson Footer? She's the absolute worst sports 'journalist' in the business. Everything she writes is 99 percent conjecture. I'm anxiously awaiting the day she gets the boot and I don't have to see anymore of her drivel on the front page of astros.com.
Haha, Ortiz is built on conjectures with his "lets trade for Car Crawford" ramblings when he has no sources to back it up. But hey, each person has there own opinions on a writer. Btw, speaking of sportswriters, Rosenthals latest on Wells: The Astros called on Blue Jays center fielder Vernon Wells, but the Jays aren't motivated to talk about Wells just yet. The emergence of outfield prospect Adam Lind creates the possibility that the team could obtain a starting pitcher by trading outfielder Alex Rios, if not Wells ... http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6196916
