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Astros Need Commitment by Clemens

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by MadMax, Oct 3, 2006.

  1. NJRocket

    NJRocket Member

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    who would you rather have?
     
  2. crose

    crose Member
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    exactly
    and Willy was shuffled in the line up more than hanram, so it is not that ridiculous to compare their numbers as a leadoff hitter.
     
  3. crose

    crose Member
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    This is not a trade discussion involving hanram and Willy.

    I would rather see the Astros make a respectable FAIR MARKET deal for Dontrelle.
     
  4. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    And when actually leading off an inning, Ramirez numbers go markedly up compared to Taveras:

    OBP - .371 to .333
    SLG (putting yourself into scoring position) - .578 to .313
    OBP - .949 to .646
     
  5. crose

    crose Member
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    ramirez is good...I got it.

    In terms of dealing with the Marlins, I think Willy T can be the centerpiece in dealing for Dontrelle.

    We will have to wait and see.
     
  6. DieHard Rocket

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    Let's see if we can find a middle ground between Nick's overpaying offer and crose's underpaying offer ... and I do mean underpaying. Taveras and Wandy for Willis? Seriously? Wandy is basically a left-handed specialist out of the bullpen at this point, and Taveras still has a lot of learning to do. He has to learn to make contact nearly 100% of the time, and get a few more extra base hits before he's anywhere close to the anchor of this deal.

    I'm thinking something like:
    Taveras
    Hirsch
    Patton or Albers
    Young, average prospect
     
  7. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Member
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    While I doubt we pry him away from the Yankees, I would be all about signing Jorge Posada.
     
  8. crose

    crose Member
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    Wandy is a stretch...maybe wishful thinking. But to give up a package deal filled with prospects, just doesnt seem logical. Maybe if he were available last year, but not this year.
     
  9. DieHard Rocket

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    If we get Pettitte back, possibly Roger, and have a legitimate shot at signing Lee ... I would easily pull the trigger on a deal with a package of prospects. There is no sense taking a chance on these young guys when the window of opportunity is there, and on top of that Willis is young himself.
     
  10. crose

    crose Member
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    I agree with dealing for Willis, but not at the sake of overpaying with young talent.

    His value has dropped between last year and this year.
     
  11. Nick

    Nick Member

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    The guy is 24 years old... a lefty PITCHER... put up an ERA of 3.something... was the Cy Young award runner up last year... is 24 years old... IS A LEFTY.... is a good batter.... has oodles of marketing potential.

    I know the Marlins are looking to move him... but Willis is about as great of a commodity as there is in baseball right now. He's an amazing stock that still probably hasn't hit its prime yet.

    This isn't like people trading for Brad Lidge or Morgan Ensberg, who had more value last year... the Marlins would be fools to just desperately unload him without thinking.
     
  12. Aceshigh7

    Aceshigh7 Member

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    There's no need to set a deadline for Clemens. Plan as if he is not going to be here. (But still go all out to try to re-sign him.)

    Clemens told the Astros last year to do just this. Their big splash? Sign Preston Wilson to a bargain contract. How underwhelming. I like Wilson, but come on. You have got to do something to upgrade the offense more than that. Even after the Wilson signing Clemens said in an interview that they needed to do more. Did they? (Nope)

    Clemens isn't "holding the Astros back" from doing anything. Just go ahead and do it. The real problem is that the Astros don't want to pay any substantial money for other free agents + Clemens.
     
  13. kaleidosky

    kaleidosky Member

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    can we stop calling hanram? makes me think you're misspelling hanley, even though i know what you're saying.. =P
     
  14. Buck Turgidson

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    Right. They were willing to pay Nomar & Tejada last offseason, Tejada & Carlos Lee during the season & beyond. The signed Roy Oswalt to a gigantic contract. They gave Clemens the largest contract ever for a pitcher. Berkman's not complaining about money either. They traded for Huff and will likely re-sign him. What part of $105M payroll is so confusing? The want to sign a significant FA bat this offseason, and the payroll sans-Clemens will be in the $90-95M range.

    Please don't just squawk "cheap cheap cheap" like a tiny little bird. Try to be smarter. Remember, you're the same guy that told us the Astros ruined *any* chance of Clemens' coming back in '06.
     
  15. Burzmali

    Burzmali Member

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    Haha... owned.

    He's right, our ownership is fantastic.

    1. Pettitte
    2. Lee
    3. Huff

    If we get those, Roger will fall in to place probably and we're in good shape.
     
  16. crose

    crose Member
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    that doesnt change the fact that his value has dropped between the offseason of '05 and now.

    He followed a Cy-Young campaign with a Ho-Hum campaign, and he is set to get a payraise. Value down.
     
  17. Burzmali

    Burzmali Member

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    The one I used is the one I intended to use.

    I didn't know he was ranked top 10 by BA, I always thought he was inflated by being a Red Sock prospect.
     
  18. Buck Turgidson

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    Except you used 2 ("is" vs. "was"); wasn't sure if you meant he isn't a prospect now, or he wasn't last season. There wasn't anything too impressive about his '05 full season in AA.
     
  19. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Member
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    no, it hasn't. his numbers dropped, slightly, but he's still an elite, top of the rotation ace who will command more than wily t., wandy and flotsam.
     
  20. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Member
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    it's amazing people still do.
     

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