1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Astros Get Graveman for Toro + Smith

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by The Drake, Jul 27, 2021.

  1. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2000
    Messages:
    9,638
    Likes Received:
    2,728
    I was thinking more for the offseason for Rule 5 purposes. Free agents like Graveman don't eat up spots.
     
    #161 NIKEstrad, Jul 28, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
  2. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    11,926
    Likes Received:
    4,885
    Much of the pre-deadline discussion surrounded the Astros’ apparent willingness to remain under the $210 million competitive balance tax. Tuesday’s deal lowered their luxury tax payroll by nearly $800,000. Including veteran sidearmer Joe Smith and his $4 million salary in the deal allowed Houston to create some room.

    RosterResource now projects the Astros with a $208,092,962 CBT payroll. It was $208,834,943 prior to the trade. If the Astros cross the $210 million threshold, they will pay a 30 percent tax on all overages. Draft pick compensation in 2022 for any declined qualifying offers is affected, too.


    https://www.houstonchronicle.com/te...man-flexible-more-moves-deadline-16346119.php
     
    Verbal Christ and NIKEstrad like this.
  3. STR8Thugg

    STR8Thugg STR8Thugg Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    3,794
    Likes Received:
    2,628
    They didn't trade Pena or Pedro Leon, come off it.

    Abraham Toro has a chance to develop and play every day. I'm happy for him. All he was going to do here long-term is rot on the bench. We have depth in the minors to replace him.
     
    The Beard likes this.
  4. the shark

    the shark Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2010
    Messages:
    3,771
    Likes Received:
    2,397
    Certainly agree with this, but unfortunately there's some who think Graveman's success this year is all due to "luck".
     
    Nook likes this.
  5. the shark

    the shark Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2010
    Messages:
    3,771
    Likes Received:
    2,397
    Toro "good"?

    Since he's been here he's hitting .196 (275 AB). Could he potentially turn into a "good" player in time with more consistent playing time? I guess we'll see.
     
  6. Rockets34Legend

    Rockets34Legend Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
    Messages:
    14,686
    Likes Received:
    2,313
  7. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,912
    Likes Received:
    9,749
    Always seemed like Verlander just cashing checks while he recovers and moved on or retired was a foregone conclusion but he sometimes makes me feel like he wants to get the band together again for one last show --- no way he can come back for the playoffs right?

     
    everyday eddie and The Beard like this.
  8. Hank McDowell

    Hank McDowell Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2002
    Messages:
    3,262
    Likes Received:
    4,068
    Toro has some pop and could become a good RBI guy down the line, but I don’t think he was an essential piece and this team NEEDS better relief pitching right now. We might regret it years from now, but for the moment it’s a great move.
     
  9. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    14,745
    Likes Received:
    15,875
    Those WAR to dollar figures are always stupid as s**t to me. Nobody is paying 30 million for a 3 WAR player, under any circumstance. That "average cost of WAR on the market "nonsense is inflated by huge and terrible contracts, not the cost of functional infielders.

    Is Toro capable of becoming a solid everyday player that we regret losing, sure, he has all the tools to be one. But you can say that for almost any trade. Will the Astros be able to replace what he will likely bring to us for a lot less than 30 million dollars, yes. Thats of course assuming he ever puts it together.
     
  10. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    42,479
    Likes Received:
    67,546
    He certainly has had some good luck, his era of under 1.00 is likely not going to continue.... however, lucky or not he still has a very heavy sinker than runs away from hitters at 99 mph and a slider that he can get to the plate at over 90 mph. His sinker results in a lot of ground balls and with its velocity and weight, it is very hard to drive out of the ballpark. His sinker is so good that players are sitting on it and it doesn't matter because they cannot do anything with it. That type of "stuff" is what the Astros need at the end of their bullpen.
     
  11. the shark

    the shark Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2010
    Messages:
    3,771
    Likes Received:
    2,397
    Absolutely he's had some "luck" but to say his success this season is because he's the "luckiest pitcher in baseball this season" is crazy and discounts what you're highlighting (that he has "stuff" that's hard to hit and this pen is upgraded with him in it).
     
  12. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    42,479
    Likes Received:
    67,546
    Yeah, he has just been very good.... and it isn't a shocked based on his stuff and the comments of hitters. He is a very good, near great relief pitcher right now. Maybe he will lose command or get injured, that holds true for any pitcher.... but he isn't getting guys out with smoke and mirrors.
     
    the shark likes this.
  13. the shark

    the shark Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2010
    Messages:
    3,771
    Likes Received:
    2,397
    Thoughts on if there will be other trades coming? I know there was some talk that Crane gave Click the go ahead to go over the luxury tax if the right deal came along.

    Do you think Crane was truly serious about this?
     
    Nook likes this.
  14. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    42,479
    Likes Received:
    67,546
    Yes, I know for a fact that Crane has given the front office the ability to go over the luxury tax and to go over by a fairly sizeable amount. The Astros are not going over the tax unless it is really worth it.

    The Astros front office has been extremely active trying to make a number of deals to add all over the diamond. They have looked at possible bats, at starting pitching and the pen..... if there is a large move to be made that is reasonable, the Astros will pull the trigger.
     
  15. the shark

    the shark Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2010
    Messages:
    3,771
    Likes Received:
    2,397
    Good to hear!!

    Thanks Nook.
     
  16. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    19,128
    Likes Received:
    7,503
    Teams can't get out of terrible contracts. The Astros still have to pay Verlander and Baez, and luckily the Mariners are paying Smith. Proven players on free agent deals bust almost as much Top 100 prospects, though a lot of this is caused by relievers. Teams really aren't that good at figuring out which relievers will be good season to season which causes relievers to be in demand every trade deadline.

    Edit: I think the $/WAR number is closer to 7M/WAR right now for the league. Click has done a lot better than the league.
     
    Snake Diggit likes this.
  17. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    6,778
    Likes Received:
    6,128
    Jurickson Profar says hi.
     
    Astrofan59 likes this.
  18. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    61,358
    Likes Received:
    49,925
    Montero was DFA'd by the M's before the trade, so he does not need to be added to our 40, correct?
     
  19. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    61,358
    Likes Received:
    49,925
    Bullsh!t.
     
    raining threes likes this.
  20. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    6,778
    Likes Received:
    6,128
    How?
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now