We will NEVER get to that point, homie. I knew people couldn't STAND McMullen but the signs? Man... Drayton might have his hang ups, and while I don't agree with some of the things he's done, please lets keep in mind that near the end of the Hunsicker era into the Pupura era, that the young talent we drafted, signed (latin ballplayers) either never panned out, traded them, or outright didn't sign. (the draftees)
I strongly believe the Astros success under Drayton's ownership was due to Gerry Hunsicker. Gerry was able to keep Drayton in check but eventually got tired of his meddling and split town, went to the Rays, and helped turned them into a first class franchise. Mailman doesn't buy into this argument, and will probably come up with a predictably asinine response.
I'm not an Astros fan, but haven't you guys been in the upper half/third of MLB in terms of team payroll? That's pretty much all you can really ask of the owner, IMO. It seems like some (one?) of you guys are blaming the owner for GM mistakes/failures.
Hunsicker was a big reason for the Astros successes in the past--he made some great trades, especially the Alou and Everett deals--but the Hun is also a primary reason for their failures right now. The players who should be contributing at the major league level now are guys that were drafted during the Hun's last four years or so. His drafts from '99 to '04 were terrible overall.
DING DING DING Poor scouting and poor drafting leads to an inevitable fall-off once your All-Star core gets older and begins to decline.
If this true, does Drayton get credit for all the great decisions in the 1990s? Hunsicker was irrelevant?
One of these days, Major will make a post that doesn't involve teleological questions regarding other people's posts. 1) Yes 2) None when a owner hires a bad GM, or serves as a de facto GM by not letting the man he hired do his job without interference, the owner becomes the source of the problem.
There is a common logical fallacy error made by the people who defend Unca Drayton by saying 'look at the success from the mid-90's to the mid-10's', and it is this: They assume that there is a causal effect relationship between the team's success and the 'efforts' of the owner. This is not necessarily true. It is akin to the ridiculous 'studies' which prove that diet sodas are bad for you, because fat people drink so much diet soda, so therefore the diet soda causes the people to become fat. Correlation does not imply causality. Drayton bought the team, and had the blind good fortune to be blessed with a promising young core, and a shrewd GM. And while the team began to enjoy more success than it had in its previous history, that is irrelevant when judging McLane's performance as an owner. You must look at what he did do, and what he didn't do. Of course, he gets a pass on Drabek and Swindell. That was just rookie exuberance. Now I don't have all the information right here in front of me off the top of my head, but the legacy of Drayton is one of letting high-end talent walk away. Couple that with an inability or unwillingness to hire top-shelf Managers, and unwillingnes to draft the best players available at draft time (because they were 'not signable' - in other words, not cheap. Signable, yes, but with a price tag, as someone else said, penny wise and pound foolish), driving Hunsicker away and replacing him with one empty suit after another, and total disinterest in creating and maintaining a strong farm system... Granted perhaps in the last couple of years he has finally realized he has milked all the cash out of the husk of the late-90's team that he could, and started paying more attention to the destitute state of his farm system, but still, that does not absolve him. My belief is that the limited success the Astros have enjoyed under McLane was DESPITE his ownership, not BECAUSE of it. In fact, the team of the 90's-mid-10's should have had much greater success, and had the team had a legitimate owner, it most likely would have. This pollyanna nonsense from Drayton apologists is just mind-boggling.
He is saying that Drayton is the GM now. Once Hunsicker left Drayton made the decisions and things went bad. When Hunsicker made decisions things were good. I think you knew that's what he meant, but you like arguing for the sake of arguing.
Logic is not a bad thing. If people make posts where the conclusions don't fit the argument, I'll generally point that out. Sure - it also means that if the owner hires a good GM, the problems can be rectified. It sounds here like the problem is not the owner, but the fact that he made a bad decision with one of his hires (Purpura). Owners do that. Not every team has good GMs all the time. It doesn't really say anything specific to McLane.
Of course, there's no actual evidence of this. He started with the assumption that "McLane = bad" and then went from there. Anything good I'll attribute to the GM. Anything bad, I'll put on McLane. Therefore, I can always show McLane = bad. It's certainly an argument. It's just not constructed with any rational basis.
Drayton has slowly taken over for most of the good baseball people, it seems to be a little bit of jealousy going on....who gets the credit, very Jerry Jonesish..... The succession of GMs has been downhill and even Pupura (a lousy GM) was a loss because he was great as a minor league development manager, losing him as GM was no biggie, but losing his expertise on the minor league front was a disaster. And Wade is simply not a strong GM at all. McLane is willing to spend some, but he needs to find good baseball people and let them do their jobs. This is going to take some time...I think...which sux. DD
But that's the logic. Remember, when something good happens, McLane 'lucked' into it. When something bad happens he is an idiot. If he doesn't throw money in with the Oswalt trade, he is a cheapskate. If he throws money in, he is a fool.
I remember at times in the 98 season with Hampton in the line-up at the 9-hole, from top to bottom, everyone had a BA at .300 and better or VERY close to it. Dome ball was pretty fun from 94-99...
Things absolutely suck where they are right now. The farm, while improving, is still devoid of major league ready talent (except for possibly the newest addition in Wallace). The signs have been there for years and the front office did little about it. However, some of the reasons the Astros are where they are also got us to a World Series. As a fan for 30 years, I won't trade that for anything...nor would I trade the 97, 98, 99, 01, or 04 seasons. Those were the best times as a baseball fan I could ever have. I'll even throw in the stretch run in 06 and the run up until Ike in 08. It's obvious to everyone with even 1 brain cell that McLane gets too involved in baseball decisions and hires lackeys who are fine with it. Tal Smith should have been fired years ago. Gerry Hunsicker was the major architect in building all that success, but he was also responsible for the start of the downfall of the farm system. I've been on record as saying that I'm praying for the Ryan Group's deal to fall apart with the Rangers and have him make a play for the Astros. That would be ideal. Outside of that, any other potential owner is a complete unknown and could always be worse. A lot needs to be done and I applaud the Astros for finally taking off the blinders and making moves to rebuild. I'm not sure yesterday's trade couldn't have have been better, especially when you hear the quotes from other GM's saying, "If I'd known they were going to throw in $11 million, I'd have made them a better offer than that..." If they can move Berkman for a prospect or two and get a little younger, I'll be ok with where they're going. Things suck, but the Astros are no where near being in the position of suckitude like the Royals and Pirates. Things will improve and this will be a winning team again in the near future. It's hard to be patient because we're used to success. I don't blame anyone for venting. Just don't forget that the Astros have been here before and will rise again.
Where do you get this stuff from? I need you to back this up with some evidence and a link. Dickie Justice, btw, is not admissible. McLane is an owner who cares a great deal about his team succeeding and making money, but he's never been anywhere close to a Jerry Jones/Al Davis type of owner who thinks he knows how to evaluate baseball players. He undoubtedly gives his input about financial matters, but this nonsense about him being an overly meddling owner is just that. Nonsense. Hunsicker left because of his differences with Tal Smith, who has always had Drayton's ear. W.T.F. Talent-wise, Purpura and Hunsicker were massive failures from '99 on. Their drafts, talent evaluation, and player development were HORRIBLE, and we are seeing the consequences of their failures right now. Purpura in particular fell in love with certain players (Jason Lane cough cough) and refused to cut bait when it was time to cut bait. Haha, tell that to Shawn Chacon. Stupid statement on your part. How do you know he's not a strong, assertive GM? You don't, you're just spouting the conventional wisdom about Ed Wade that's rooted in the reactionary idiocy of Philly Fan. Right, because Bobby Heck and Ed Wade are not good baseball people. They've done nothing but left a trail of failures in their wake.
