Russ Springer leaving had nothing to do with money -- it had everything to do with this bizarre idea from Purpura that he needed a "multi-inning" reliever and that Springer didn't have the duration to fit the bill. It was a baseball decision (and a very stupid one at that), not a financial one. I don't know this to be true, but from the whispers, I think a lot of you are giving Drayton too much credit.
and they'll have that $4M this winter because both guys are off the books. and look, we keep throwing $4M down... but if you want to get technical, here's what wade said after the hawkins deal: “I want to say (in) the deal he had in excess of a $1 million remaining on his contract,” Wade said. “They ended up taking a significant portion of the money back.” so hawkins is costing us less than $1M - wolf's base salary was $4M. even if we picked up half of it (doubtful since we didn't deal for him at the halfway point of the season), they're costing us less than $3M and probably closer to about $2.5M. it's next-to nothing AND off the books in three months. i can't believe anyone thinks this is gonna have any kind of short- or long-term impact.........
I don't - I consider an owner who throws $4 MM into that goal when he has better uses for the money a bad thing. No - because it means that he has $4 MM less money available to him when he needs to make that upgrade to go from 2nd to 1st. A team that's run the same to get from 5th to 4th and 2nd to 1st is a team that's run really badly. It's the same philosophical stupidity that got us Jason Jennings to try to help last year's team be sorta-mediocre instead of really-mediocre. For me, there's no difference between sucking really badly and sucking sorta badly - especially when the solution to going from the former to the latter is a bunch of one year rentals that aren't going to be on your team the following year anyway. But it is, by definition, negatively affecting the rebuilding process. Because even if the farm system is budgeted to what they want, you can always go sign more players. Or add better facilities. Or get better scouts. If you have $4 MM to throw away - and that's what's happening here - throw it away on the minors. As long as there are unsigned players in the world, you have better uses of your money than Wolf and Hawkins - and those uses weren't taken advantage of. Or, if you really, honestly believe you've signed every player in the world that is worthy of a contract, have a state of the art minor leagues that can't be improved, have academies in every nation that produces baseball players, and have signed all of the best scouts the world has to offer, then put the money in a slush fund so that when you are, in fact, in 2nd place, you have $4MM in payroll flexibility that you otherwise wouldn't have had to go out and improve your team. Whatever you do, don't waste it on something that will have no lasting impact beyond September 30, 2008. This is exactly why the Jennings trade was bad - you spend assets (then it was players; this time it's money) - on something that had no long term return in an attempt to be less mediocre.
concrete examples? 4 million is a lot is international free agency. The elite latin american players sign for ~1 million. When the last time if ever the astros have signed a 1 million per year latin american 16 yr old? The A signed the best latin american player ever? this year to a 4.2 million dollar bonus. scouts say he may be the best 16 yr old pitcher in history. he's probably the equivalent of a obtaining a top 3 draft pick. For 4 million... For a team starved of minor league talent, the astros would have been better served used that type of money on him or other elite talent. The astros are more than a oswalt or sheet, etc away from competing. They are old team whose core will get worse next year. they are bad to below average is just about every area of the game. Unless Drayton is going to open the mlb budget up by 50 million in free agency, they are not going to be much better next year.
No, they won't. That money will be in Randy Wolf and Latroy Hawkins' bank accounts instead of the Astros bank accounts. It doesn't matter if its $4 MM or $2 MM.
wolf is going to get a 1million dollar bonus in addition to the ~2.5 million owed to him by the astros. so that's where the 3.5 millino figure comes from
Livian Hernandez was released by the Twins today. And he has 10 wins and has been reliable this year. I know the Stros tried to sign him in the offseason. I would love to see us pick him up to help shore up the pitching staff.
He's been reliable - reliably horrible. WHIP of 1.632, 5.48 ERA, and he's given up 199 hits in 139 innings. Ten wins is a Jeriome Robertson-type fluke, though statistically this year he makes Jeriome Robertson look like a solid #2 starter. No thanks. We already traded for one washed up old retread starter in Wolf. Our quota in that department is filled. [rquoter] Since May 17, he was 4-7 record with a 6.59 ERA and .364 opponent's batting average in 14 starts. [/rquoter] Ouch.
various quotes* from this morning's chronicle on the astros' decision to buck the slotting system and get ross seaton signed: *one of the quotes may be made up.
I'm not sure the relevance here. Rank these three scenarios for the Astros in terms of what situation they would be better off in next year: 1. Spend $4MM on Hawkins and Wolf, release them for nothing at the end of the year. 2. Sign 4 elite Dominican young players 3. Sign the top Latin American prospect EVER for $4 MM. Those are just a few of many hypothetical scenarios you could use an extra $4MM. We chose to use it on the one thing that has no long term benefit whatsoever. It's the one option absolutely guaranteed not to help us in the rebuilding. It's great that the Astros are spending on the minors. But that's irrelevant on what to do in regards to these trades - you can always do more, and it would simply accelerate the rebuilding process. Normally, the reason not to do keep doing more and more is that it costs more money and you have a limit on resources to spend - but here, you're just wasting those resources on Hawkins and Wolf.
y'all may as well stop trying to talk sense in to him (them). believe me, i know it's hard to do, but there are just some people who back every move made by the front office, think it's automatically the right one, and can't think for themselves. if we were in possession of hawkins, and just traded him for cusick, they'd be saying that was the correct move also.
There are certainly people like that - but that doesn't apply to Ric. He criticized plenty of the Astros' moves last year (Jennings trade, for example). The only time I've felt like I was running into a brick wall with Ric was anything relating to David Carr. As I'm sure he felt with me.
if they traded for wolf/hawkins AND signed 4 elite dominican young players AND the top latin american prospect EVER for $4 MM - would you be complaining it could have been *8* elite dominican young players and the top *2* latin american prospects if they hadn't traded for wolf/hawkins? when does it end? the article confirms the astros have made a commitment (financial and otherwise) to rebuild their farm system. wolf/hawkins and their $3M salaries are not having, and will never have, any impact on that commitment. and, after this weekend, tell me again not trying and being content with last place is preferable. they're 4 games under .500 and their two new acqusitions have had a hand in this most recent surge.
thank god there aren't any knee-jerk reactors who only seem to discuss the team when its down... i called for a rebuild this winter and hated the construction of the team. but they want to win and be competitive - they think it sells tickets - silly, i know as it's been proven fans only support teams that lose consistently. at this point, i'm merely defending their perspective; i understand their thinking. and after this weekend, it has some validity. if they get to .500, you'll, of course, disappear since there won't be anything to b**** about, and the rest of us will be talking about how much fun it is to root for a competitive team.
just to clarify, this is what you said, right?: "i flip flop and go whichever way the wind blows...i wanted a rebuild this season but since management thinks we will be competitive, i guess i kinda sorta'ish do too...random, baseless, defensive "i'm a better fan than you" insult made due to incapability of providing any real insight...look, we just won 3 games so now management and me are right...another "i'm a bigger fan than you" insult. and, to summarize: in a thread arguing what an awful move it was to trade a prospect for latroy hawkins, your argument now has turned to: with 50 games left in the season, we have a prayer of getting to .500, therefore, this team absolutely should not have been sellers, and made a great acquisition in latroy hawkins. you are happy with the team, and are going to be happy when nearly the exact same team in trotted out next year, unless, of course, drayton decides to rebuild, in which case, you'll also then think the time is right for that. nice post. you seem to have mastered the art of leaving yourself outs to play both sides, and never having a real stance or having to admit you're wrong.
I don't know if Wolf and Hawkins are worth even the marginal prospects we gave up for them. However I am in agreement with the general philosophy that just because you don't appear to gave the stuff to make a playoff run doesn't mean you need to throw in the towel completely and push a bunch of AAA never weres to 100 losses. I dunno...the Astros have a penchant for Lazarus like second halves...and Wolf > Runelvys Hernandez and Hawkins can be quasi effective as long as no one makes him pitch to a left hander... Call me undecided.
the team's philosophy is to win/be competitive, cardpire. they will not deviate; they're never going to rebuild. i UNDERSTAND this; doesn't mean i'll always agree with it, but i've accepted it... so i never flip-flopped - i thought they should have gone one direction; they went another. at that point, my options were to stick my fingers in my ear, stomp my feet and b**** endlessly about how they didn't do what i wanted (coughcough)... or i could sit back and let things play out. and you know, other than a terrible, terrible stretch where they lost 22 of 31 games, the team is actually 44-35 - that's a 90-win pace. and here you are, screaming "sell! sell!" based on 31 games. are the other 79 meaningless? if they can find a way to smooth out that long stretch next year so they don't dig such a deep hole, this team should be able to win 80-85 games and be in contention. turns out they were right. doesn't mean i was wrong, and it certainly doesn't mean i've flip-flopped. and as long as they don't rip apart/ignore their system to do it, i'm OK with it. further, i never termed the wolf or hawkins deals "great;" i was merely attempting to point out - in the face of "WHAT ARE THEY DOING??!!! DRAYTON IS DUMB AND SHOULD SELL THE TEAM!!! ED WADE SUCKS!!!!!!" knee-jerking hysteria - that they were low-risk, high-reward moves, we gave up nothing of value, we're not paying them a lot of money, and if they bomb, oh well. if they prove to be upgrades to a shoddy rotation and a taxed 'pen, then what's the harm? more importantly, why is it worth getting upset about? because you've dug your heels in so deep that you feel like conceeding even a little at this point would be a sign of weakness? so the plan then is to dig deeper and start pitching an even bigger, louder and more non-sensical fit?
if you take away 57 of the games, we are 53-0. you sound like uncle drayton's kind of guy. once again, these do not qualify as "low risk, high reward" trades...it's the complete opposite (particularly regarding the trade this thread was intended to concern). i do not know what exactly there is for me to concede. we went from 7 games under .500 to 4 games under, and that somehow validates the Hawkins deal? the 2 batters he faced won us 3 games?
