I think getting Astacio for Elarton was a good trade, but we'll see how it works out. As far as the Mike Williams deal, I can't even begin to understand why anyone could criticize that move. It is an absolute steal to add a quality reliever for a low rated prospect like McKnight. You can never have enough quality arms. In terms of 2001, there's nothing to lose in the Astacio deal. You trade a nonentity for a potential quality #3.
As far as I see it, these trades rocked. The Pedro Astacio trade is GREAT for both teams. For us, we get a struggling pitcher who has had results before, and can go deep into games. He's got solid stuff, and will get good enough run support with Houston to rack up some wins. The Rockies get Elarton, who could be a very good pitcher again. I hope he regains his form. But it's really not that bad for us to dump him -- we can't wait forever to see if he returns to form (see Jose Lima) and the Astros can afford to dump a POSSIBLE good prospect, as we are LOADED with great prospects, and if one slips away, we can afford it. The Tony McKnight for Mike Williams trade is also solid for both of us. I really liked McKnight, and felt he had the stuff to be a starter for us, but he just doesn't have the perceived upside of our other prospects. And so we get rid of him, and get a Trevor Hoffman-like reliever in return. YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH PITCHING. ------------------ "We must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom." --Kang
For all of you McKnight supporters... I thought both were very good trades. Seems like we got Williams cheaper than what Pittsburgh was selling him for. I had heard many times that they wanted two players in return. McKnight would've been an average starter at best, likely 4th or 5th in the rotation. I'm sure the Stros have some much better pitching prospects in the farm system, so McKnight was expendable. A solid bullpen is a MUST if you want to go anywhere in the playoffs, or get in the playoffs in the Astros case. Look at all the good teams around the league...NYY, Seattle, Cubs, Braves...they all have very good bullpens. Several solid relievers make up a good bullpen, which the Astros now have. I personally think we may now have the best pen, with 3 or 4 guys that could be closers on many other teams. Both trades should give the team a huge boost. Plus, the players now know that they are really going for it. After losing a series to the lowly Pirates and seeing all the other contenders make deals, I think the players already here expected to see something, and if nothing happened, they may have been a little dissapointed. ------------------ Who needs teachers? I can learn my own self.
McKnight had no future with us. We still have 4 guys that are sure starters for next year, and under contract (Oswalt, Redding, Miller, Reynolds), and by the time Reynolds goes, Carlos Hernandez will be ready. The Astros have so many pitching prospects more highly regarded than McKnight it's not even funny. Powell is probably on the same level. We're stocked with guys like Lidge and Wilfredo Rodriguez, and lower level guys like Nannini. We have a couple of lefties picked up as after thoughts in the Hampy/Everett deals in Kyle Kessel and Greg Miller that are supposed to be pretty solid as well. McKnight would at best be a long reliever, and Mlicki is under contract for another year. I'm sure we can find a 5th starter somewhere, heck the Cubbies picked up 2 cheap guys at the end of their rotation in Bere and Tavarez. If Astacio works out, and we decide to keep him our rotation will be fine. Both of these moves were excellent. The Cubs are the Cubs. Lieber is beatable. Wood hardly goes into the 7th. Tapani is struggling, and Bere and Tavarez are pitching WAAY over their heads. I would not be surprised if they start choking soon. our bullpen of Jackson-Dotel-Williams-Wagner matches theirs of Weathers-Farnsworth-Fassero-Gordon. On another note, I wouldn't surprised if Williams is used to give us another lefty specialist (yes, I know he's a RHP). Williams and Dotel allows us to go ahead and use Wagner earlier than the 9th if we need a left handed out and don't trust Villone. Expect that to come into play when taking the bat out of the hands of McGriff. The Astacio deal was a good gamble. Elarton's velocity was down this year, and I wouldn't be too surprised if his arm is shot for awhile. He is a flyball guy anyhow, and Astacio is as good a gamble as any-ESPN was saying his groundball:flyball was 2:1, which is great in Enron, and his curveball will curve much more. He also eats innings very well, which is something our staff needed to relieve our bullpen. Apparently the Rockies picked up the difference between Elarton and Astacio's contracts, so we fit a 1 mill bill in a buyout- less than we'd pay Ellie through arbitration. Or if he absolutely tears it up, at the rate pitchers are going for, we get a "relative bargain" at 9 mill. Another stat I saw-Astacio had a lower road ERA than Hampton this year. As I post this, we're going into extra innings. If our offense could only produce. Our starter when 6 innings, and it's been lights out. Good thing we'll have a fresh arm in Williams tomorrow, hopefully Redding can get 6-7 innings. ------------------ "Larry Johnson, who spent the last 48 hours railing against the world, what a pathetic performance by this sad human being." -The one and only Bill Walton [This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited July 31, 2001).]
You guys are forgetting something about the Astacio trade. "Player to be named later" Not "Player to be named later other than Daryle Ward." Just something to keep in mind. ------------------ We used to laugh at Grandpa when he'd head off and go fishing. But we wouldn't be laughing that evening when he'd come back with some w**** he picked up in town. Ambition is like a frog sitting on a Venus Flytrap. The flytrap can bite and bite, but it won't bother the frog because it only has little tiny plant teeth. But some other stuff could happen and it could be like ambition.
The player to be named later can not be Daryle Ward, it can't be anyone who was on the roster when the move was made. Also the player to be named later is a "second tier minor league prospect", IE not Hernandez. ------------------ Whatever happened to feminism being about taking off bras and burning them? That was so much cooler. It had two things that men love - jiggly breasts and fire.
Rodriguez, Miller, Lidge, Kessel, Hernandez all have better stuff than McKnight. McKnight looks like a journeyman waiting to happen. Heck, even Gammons says the Stros have the best farm system in the majors.... ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
The "player to be named later" is usually not a really significant guy -- what typically happens is that a list of guys is agreed upon, and at some point later on, the teams make the swap. And sometimes there are different lists depending on how well the player you traded for does. I'm gonna put my money on Chris Truby as the one who'll be gone. ------------------ "We must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom." --Kang
OH NO!!!!! NOT TRUBY !!!! What happened to him ? He started out hot. BTW, Halama was a PTBNL, and he isn't so bad. I hope it is a McKNight type prospect. ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
