Astros Acquire Clint Barmes

Yeah, when I heard the deal, my question was how viable Barmes is defensively as a shortstop. With the exception of 2010, he's been fairly consistent offensively (mid-to-upper .700s OPS), which I'm guessing would translate to .700-.730 ish at MMP in a reasonable sample size. If the Astros can get that production at SS with league average defense, that would represent tremendous progress from 2009. Nothing special, but the issue with the Astros, offensively, has been the number of complete black holes. If the advanced SS metrics are positive, I'm bullish on the deal.

That said, if they try and move him to 2B... my optimism fades. That's a position that is becoming increasingly OBP and OPS-oriented, and Barmes is not acceptable there, regardless of his defense.

 

Terrible. All trades the Astros make should have the following parameters:

1. Get younger.
2. Get more upside.

I don't have much hope for Paulino, but he's younger and has more upside than Clint Barmes, who's a replacement-level scrub. No good reason for this trade - you can find Clint Barmeses as cheap free agents anytime you want.

For those saying a 4.40 ERA is bad - it's not great, but it's probably above-average for a #4 starter. And just take a look at guys like Wandy before saying a guy will "never get it" 3 years into their career. His overall ERA dropped by a full point year-over-year and even more if you look at him at as a starter.

 

Paulino sucked. Barmes sucks, too, but at least he can play some SS. Pretty much a garbage in, garbage out deal.

I don't really care how fast a pitcher throws if it can't throw it that fast with control. Clearly, Paulino lacked the ability to avoid walks, which is one of the few things a pitcher can control (along with strikeouts and home runs). He's had 8 pro seasons to work on that weakness, and last year it got worse instead of better.

 

The 4th and 5th spot should both be wide open. Last year they just handed the job to Bud Norris and he didn't too well. Talent wise he has what you want. I think the trade market is the more likely option because this free agent market doesn't have any depth when it comes to start pitching. Guys like Carl Pavano, Jon Garland, Javier Vasquez, Jorge De La Rosa are probably going be overpaid on the open market. Guys like Rich Harden, Brandon Webb, Chris Young, and Jeff Francis will probably get 1 year deals with incentives. I think that is the type of deal the Astros may look at.

 

THIS!!

You have to get younger, you have to have more players with upside. I'm fine with signing veterans to short contracts...

...but don't trade young pitching (however suspect) for mediocre, aging position players!

 

The thing about signing veterans to short contracts is that you mostly see good teams doing it. A mediocre team like the Astros is not going to get a mid level veteran to sign a short deal because they won't get any exposure for their next free agent deal. Look at what Beltre and Uribe did. I assure you that both those guys got offered bigger money contracts than the ones they did last year. They both opted to join the better team so they could by comparison look like more attractive free agents. If we had signed Uribe to play third base or shortstop last summer do you think he would get anything near the kind of deal he's looking for now? A team like the Astros has to either overpay mid tier guys (feliz, matsui) or sign lower tier guys when they are in their current situation.

 

just another ss that cant hit his weight.

 

Starting to get it? 1-6 isn't starting to get it. 6-21 lifetime means you're not going to get it. He's a bust. Get over it and move on.

 

1-6 with no run support. Nolan Ryan went 8-16 while leading the majors in ERA. I guess he just didn't get it either.

 

You didnt just compare Paulino to Ryan did you? Beacause if you did, I think that should be a perma-BAN!!!!

 

did you watch him pitch, or are you speaking from looking at the numbers?

I watched all his starts and most of his late season relief appearances. He's got a plus curve and a dominant fast ball. prior to his injury he was magnificent and well ahead of where norris is at this point. after the injury, he wasn't in the rotation and had a hard time adjusting to the role that was presented.

many times with power pitchers like paulino, it takes them longer to develop. I myself was looking forward to going into the season with more arms than needed and letting the chips fall where they may. IMO, we traded him at a low point in value. IMO, he had the possibility of being our # 3 next year and displacing Norris et al.

 

Compare Nolan Ryan's ERA to Paulino's. You're better than that.

 

I'm a season ticket holder. No he didn't have a chance to be our No. 3 starter. IF he did, he wouldn't of been traded. He's didn't pan out. He never got it. He had a lazy work ethic. It was time for him to go. Good riddance.

 

I figured Felix Hernandez winning the Cy was a sign that people were going to stop using W-Ls to evaluate pitchers.

Anyway, Barmes is okay I guess. Pretty good glove at SS and not as atrocious with the bat as Manzella. That said, I was kind of expecting the Rockies to non-tender him, so I'm surprised they got anything of value for him.

 

You chose to focus on record, when a pitcher has so little control over that. Obviously I brought up Ryan to drive that point home. I'll sign up for my 5th starter to have a 4.40 ERA all day long. That really was putting him on the same track as Wandy. I think health was the biggest concern with Paulino, not his ability to pitch.

 

If you can have a 5th starter with the age and potential of Paulino then you have to let him take that role and try to develop.

But obviously there is more to it than we know. From my point of view like I stated earlier he lacked command at times and was just far to injury prone to be reliable.

I think this possibly opens up the possibility of Lyles coming up in the near future. Depending on how he does in spring training and if they start him at AAA.

 

I focus on everything with Paulino. Not just the record. It's not putting him on track with Wandy. Wandy wasn't injury prone and Wandy figured it out. Paulino will never be a Wandy. He's more of a Jason Hirsch. Someone with potential who will never pan out.

 

Then say something beyond calling him 1-6.

Paulino has improved throughout his tenure in Houston. I won't disagree with him being injury plagued, because he is. I said it is the only reason worth giving up on him is that he can't stay healthy. Wandy improved every year, nobody expected him at 28 years old to suddenly get it, but he did.