1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Astros 2021 Season General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Snake Diggit, Apr 15, 2021.

  1. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    18,550
    Likes Received:
    6,633
    Luhnow should get credit for Altuve being extended.

    Crane should get credit on all FA signings. If he opened budget for someone like Springer, that would be even more on Crane. Click fitting Gurriel and Brantley within the budget Crane has given him is on Click.

    I'm not sure if Click is a great GM or not. However, if the judgement is based solely on what he's done and what has happened, he's getting more wins per money on his signings than most teams get. Granted, this is a really small sample.

    If Click is a bad GM, I doubt it will be because of FA signings.
     
    jiggyfly likes this.
  2. conquistador#11

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    29,032
    Likes Received:
    8,718
    What's good about eating innings if you're going to throw it up before the 3rd inning even starts. Stros don't need Bulimic pitchers. He should eat innings after the starter is done, say innings 5-8. See how that goes. Because as a starting innings eater he's been a failure.
     
  3. Marshall Bryant

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    336
    Likes Received:
    219
    I do not refute that Odorizzi was brought in to eat the innings lost by Valdez or as an innings eater in a young rotation.

    But of the options they now face, a six man rotation saves about 33 innings over a season while disrupting the tried and true five man rotation rest schedule. Right now, the BP needs help as much as starters need rest. Javier has significantly reduced innings since he was taken out of the rotation.

    At some point, reduced innings could affect sharpness.

    I do wonder if some entirely new concept could be used like a seven man rotation with the middle starter available for a couple of innings between starts.

    I know it sounds crazy, but so did Openers a couple of years ago. And 100 pitch limits in the early 70s.
     
  4. Milos

    Milos Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2001
    Messages:
    796
    Likes Received:
    293
    I have no personal insight or rooting interest towards Click ... so I'm not chiming in with any real opinion of him ...

    Forget about him for a minute, and let's just step back and evaluate the position of New 2020 Astros GM as a job opening for any candidate

    Just listing out the set of circumstances ANYONE hired for the job would have inherited ...
    I am quickly overwhelmed with the magnitude of obstacles stacked against whomever took on the challenge:


    - COVID
    No first time GM has ever faced the unique set of budgetary, scheduling, amateur-draft and logistical nightmares that made 2020 the strangest MLB season I have witnessed
    Also caused cancellation of entire year of minors development
    Amateur draft without any scouting updates that was shortened to only 5 rounds hurt too


    - SCAPEGOAT
    Newly-minted villains of MLB
    Somehow responsible for all Sign-Stealing in the history of baseball, and universally loathed by just about every other fan base, hypocrisy be damned


    - SANCTIONS
    In addition to following the most successful, beloved brain trust the franchise ever had, he didn't have a top-100 pick in either of his first 2 drafts
    And I believe he and Crane were "assigned" Dusty as a watchdog via the Commish


    - CLOSING WINDOW
    Since the beginning of Luhnow's master plan to build an extended window of contention, 2020-21 was always destined to be the start a tough transition era for this core of players

    Losing Game 7 in 19 was the end of the 100-win run as an elite team ... by design

    As the young roster aged and guys ARB years began to expire, the budget dictated severe attrition of elite talent that was never going to be kept intact by any GM (Cole, Springer, Osuna)


    - ROTATION DECIMATION
    2018 was the finest unit the Astros have ever assembled
    In only 2 years since, only the #5 LMJ remains

    First Keuchel & Charlie walked
    Greinke helped replace some of that

    Until the best SP on Earth left for NYC

    The devastation was completed with 3 concurrent, devastating injuries to our best rotation arms:
    Past - JV
    Present - LMJ
    Future - Whitley




    Click inherited all of that
    I can't hate on his performance under those unprecedented circumstances

    2020 squad made the aborted season memorable with an exciting playoff run while developing a glut of talented young arms on the fly

    2021 club has performed as fringe top-5 contender

    Lineup remains elite despite replacing heart&soul Springer with the empty uniform of Straw

    Rotation has been rebuilt around tremendous depth despite losing 2 of 5 best Starters in all of baseball back-to-back

    Bullpen has always been the weak-link unit of this club and it remains a dumpster fire


    If I'm Crane, these are my marching orders to Click for what I want to see from him rest of 2021:

    - Fix CF
    Easiest, cheapest fix of most glaring hole
    How much of JBJ's contract would MIL be willing to eat?
    If all else fails, bring Jake home for a bucket of balls

    - Buy Pressly some late help in pen
    With stands full again and impending budget relief coming when Greinke, JV & Correa expire ...
    The time is now to bump the payroll for a few months to make another playoff run
    While we have Brew on the phone ... what would it take to expand JBJ deal and rent Hader for 3 months?
    Luckily relief pitching is always the most abundantly available type of asset at the deadline

    - Verlander in AUG
    Haven't heard anything at all ...
    But if anyone can work back way ahead of schedule ...
    He has to begin minors rehab by AUG
    So he can use SEP as his spring ramp-up
    So he can be on the mound for Game 1 in OCT
     
    #424 Milos, Jun 9, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
    Rockets34Legend and Snake Diggit like this.
  5. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    18,550
    Likes Received:
    6,633
    Has whatever is wrong with JBJ's bat been fixed? I wanted him in the offseason, but would be very worried after 2 months of a bat that bad.
     
  6. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    12,718
    Likes Received:
    10,685
    Who is blindly supporting him?

    Nobody is saying you are a bad fan just stop.

    A lot of people where wanting to run Gurriel out of town before the extension, so yeah he does get credit for resigning him at that contract.

    A lot of people were saying we needed an upgrade at 1st base.

    I have no idea why people need to make a judgement on Click either way,especially with all of the turmoil over the last 2 years.
     
    Milos likes this.
  7. Milos

    Milos Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2001
    Messages:
    796
    Likes Received:
    293
    I'm def not paying full retail for him, but if MIL marks him down to the clearance rack ...

    This is what I know JBJ can do:

    - Play great CF with range, instincts, and decent arm
    Speed is great and all ... but I'll take the complete package to anchor between old legs in LF and questionable instincts in RF

    - Run bases competently
    By this I mean avoid regularly making little league outs on bases by stealing in wrong situation, forgetting to slide into home on a tag-up, etc

    - Bat LH, and occasionally drive a ball into the OF
    On the rare chance JBJ actually makes contact, there is a decent chance at least 1 OF has to move his feet a little, and may even have to turn and run towards the wall once a week

    - Rely on a wealth of playoff experience
    Been to the mountaintop, and has generally been a clutch performer when the sphincters pucker up tightest


    I have no idea if JBJ can make better contact than Straw, but ...
    I'm certain he's a proven MLB vet


    I'm not sure Myles Straw could earn regular ABs for AA right now

    I'm betting they swap his 40man spot for Ciri the instant his service clock deadline passes

    If he can't cut it either, go find a vet rental for a couple of months to bridge until Leon takes over next spring
     
    #427 Milos, Jun 9, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
  8. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    12,718
    Likes Received:
    10,685
    So Click gets no credit for gambling on all the young arms?

    Outside of Valdez and Abreu I don't remember anybody really talking about any of the other guys being counted on anytime soon?

    And Lunhow did not seem to be a guy who would have taken that many chances.
     
  9. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    58,750
    Likes Received:
    46,144
    No.
     
  10. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    7,484
    Likes Received:
    1,505
     
  11. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    6,222
    Likes Received:
    4,959
    Excellent post.
     
    Milos likes this.
  12. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    6,222
    Likes Received:
    4,959
    I hate to highlight it, but over the last 2 weeks Myles Straw has rebounded quite a bit. Thru 227 pa he’s put up an 84 wRC+ and 0.9 fwar, which puts him on pace to be merely a below average everyday CF. At this point given Houston’s lack of financial flexibility, the relative few CF available via trade, and the cooling of guys in AAA (Siri, Meyers, and Dawson have not continued to dominate over the last 2 weeks), it may be best to stand pat and see where Straw ends up after a full season. With so many everyday caliber SS available in free agency this offseason it’s possible Pedro Leon could ready to be the CF if they determine they want to upgrade from Straw.

    Next offseason will be huge for Click and the Astros in determining how long the window can stay open. He will have a large amount of payroll available, and if everything breaks right (Leon and/or Pena showing they’re ready, young pitching holding up in the rotation and getting established in the pen, everybody else staying healthy) there will be few holes in the roster. It’ll probably be the most exciting offseason ever for me, which is good since this trade deadline may be the most boring ever aside from 2020.
     
    #432 Snake Diggit, Jun 11, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
    Pringles, awc713 and jim1961 like this.
  13. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    42,875
    Likes Received:
    7,917
    Its fine when its just Maldonado/catcher and him. But Dusty won't be able to play the "magnicificent seven" each/every game and Diaz being out really leaves a whole. bunch of unproven guys. That leaves a third of all games with Chaz/Straw/C, or Jones/Straw/C, or Robel/Straw/C.

    Straw almost has to get on base and produce in those scenarios...
     
  14. Marshall Bryant

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    336
    Likes Received:
    219
    The frustrating thing about this team is that it can destroy good teams as easily as it loses to poor teams. Astros success does not seem to correlate to wins and losses of the opposition.

    Against sub 500 teams, we're 8-11 or 0.42105.
    Against over 500 teams, we're 24-16 or 0.60000.

    Against teams 10 games+ under 4-8 or .33333.
    Against teams 10 games+ over 16-9 or .64000.
     
    #434 Marshall Bryant, Jun 11, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
    Snake Diggit likes this.
  15. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    18,550
    Likes Received:
    6,633
  16. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    58,750
    Likes Received:
    46,144
    Reposting from Twins series thread:

    Really crappy news, feel terrible for him. Pitchers are notorious for doing this, and it's incredibly dumb, but I can totally understand why Ivey did what he did.
     
    raining threes and No Worries like this.
  17. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,758
    Likes Received:
    3,234
    Yeah, and it totally screws the Astros. With Whitley, Solis, and now Ivey's situation the Astros basically have a 37 man and not a 40 man roster.

    The Astros might have to call Ivey up to put him on the 60 day IL to create a spot on the 40 man roster. That would mean he gets paid an MLB salary and his service time clock would be rolling.
     
    Buck Turgidson likes this.
  18. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    6,222
    Likes Received:
    4,959
    I am a believer in Jones as an above average bench bat who can play 1B, 3B, LF, and DH. He projects to be below average (87-93 wRC+) but I think he is underrated. He’s never had an extended run in the majors and is only thru 63 pa total. I also think McCormick and Garcia can be roughly average. Not ideal but not a major issue, and gives the upside of giving young guys a chance to break in.

    Wow, that sucks. I understand why Ivey did it but that’s not going to win him any fans in any MLB front office.
     
  19. awc713

    awc713 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    5,254
    Likes Received:
    3,676
    It’s so frustrating seeing the A’s in first place with a +9 run differential. We’re clearly the better team. Hopefully we can eclipse them soon and not look back. HOU is 2nd in the AL in run differential (+79), with CWS and TAM at +91 and +78.
     
    Snake Diggit likes this.
  20. raining threes

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    5,543
    Likes Received:
    2,463
    Luhnow left Click the keys to a Cadillac. Hopefully Click doesn't run the Cadillac into a ditch.

    So far I've been very underwhelmed with Click and getting rid of Goldstein because Goldstein didn't want to work from Houston (Especially in these Covid times we live in) was Click's biggest mistake of his tenure so far. Even bigger than the crap FA signings this offseason. (I count Brantley as an extension, not a FA signing.)
     
    The Beard likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now