You are obviously unaware of post-WWII Germany vs. Japan. German education features a heavy dose of their own crimes in WW2, their own wrongdoings. Nazi salute in Germany will get you arrested. Young Germans would give me great details of that era in a very unflattering light despite it being their own country. Post War Japan? Not even close. I have seen Chinese people buy Japanese cars and I have seen many young Chinese pass through these cars without deciding they should smash them. I have no personally seen a single instance of violent anti-Japanese behavior despite living near the Beijing University area during the height of the Diaoyu incident. Also, America wasn't even really affected by Germany much. Most of American fighting occured in the Pacific. Anti-Japanese sentiments in China SHOULD BE MUCH BIGGER than Anti-German sentiments in the US. I mean for Christ sakes we WON against Germany. China lost like milions of civilians and had their country torn down. This is like compare Rockets fans hating the Lakers vs. Rockets fans hating the Jazz. There's no comparison. And that's my point. I have no comparison. I bring up Germany because it is literally the closest thing I can think of despite being a very imperfect analogy. That is why I said in my last post I cannot comprehend what the Chinese went through in WWII. This is simply utter, total, ridiculous bulls*** that I feel even this sentence is more than the response it deserves. Chinese young people love mangas and comics. Japanese is the 2nd or 3rd most studied foreign language in China after English and maybe Korean. Many young Chinese cultural influences come from Japanese culture. I honestly have no idea what the hell you're talking about. China's economy has grown to be one of the biggest in the world. Clearly people are worrying about a lot more things beyond Japan, no?
Several years ago while flying China Airlines in J class, I had a guy walk back (or up) to my row and KA BOOM! he suddenly showed me quite a lot of respect. The smell lasted a while. It literally blew me away in more ways than one.
Wrong facts , prejudices and stuff out of thing air. If anything the government wants to calm down the animosity, which is by large spontaneous from the people. Granted, lots of that may be irrational. But that's what you get when a race, a people is hurt. Yes, China should get out of victim state, but not for the reasons you mentioned. I find your comments rather disturbing. What are you complaining about? What is your point? Jesus.
I agree with this. There really is no comparison between the two, and how they treat their own legacies regarding WWII. You just have to take one look at Japanese school textbooks. This is part of the reason why the resentment that still remains exists (or at least to the level it exists today) in certain segments of society. These segments are relatively small but they are vocal bunch, whose grievances are rooted in what is perceived (and observed) as a lack of Japanese accountability for their imperialism, and further fueled by the occasional audacity displayed by some Japanese who openly take pride in that era of their history. However for the most part, life goes on as normal. You won't see anti-Japanese propaganda blaring through loudspeakers on the streets of Seoul. And for the most part, Koreans don't really care anymore. In my personal experience, the two countries are more integrated than one would initial think, and the average Korean and Japanese coexist well together. I know several native Japanese who live in Seoul, speak Korean fluently, are part of social circles which are predominately Korean, and in every practical sense are completely acclimated to Korean culture. I also know so many Koreans who have spent significant parts of their lives in Japan, or are still doing so. Many Koreans speak Japanese, and vice versa, albeit this is yet a niche segment of the population. It's also hilarious someone posted earlier the Koreans and Chinese need to hate Japan for their own nationalistic aspirations. To be honest, that comes across as extremely arrogant and dismissive. Not to mention the hilarity of the irony. The Japanese Imperial flag is still an offensive symbol of hate akin to the Nazi flag. The new Japanese football jersey, which is apparently selling like hot cakes, coyly brandishes the Rising Sun Flag. This kind of thing rubs people the wrong way, even if its 2014. Spoiler Kind of has this effect: Spoiler
No, I don't have alternative evidence. The imperial army certainly didn't keep a tally of Chinese killed, although the 731 unit did. There were no UN at the time, so there was no objective third party observer for the death toll. The number is anecdote by elderly people in the family that I respect and trust. Could it be a exaggeration? May be. If that's the case, I apologize that the imperial army didn't kill 650k Chinese, my bad. I will tell you a story told by my Grandma who lived through the Colonization period. She said she had to pass a guard point manned by Japanese soldiers once a while in her town when she was a little girl. The guards "demanded" every Chinese by passers to bow or otherwise be punished. One day she saw a Chinese young man was knifed by a Japanese soldier because he didn't bow. I guess that was never recorded for anything, but why would my Grandma lie to her grandson? I am sorry, you want the truth, but can you handle it? Now, this twisting logic to justify the war, are you freaking kidding me? Yeah, the Chinese corroborators also participated in the bad acts, therefore you are not better. That's just fxxked up, shame on that. Do Japan occupy Tokyo? This line of arguments coming out of pretentious Japanese academia is just flat out childish, to say the least.
but, unlike the Nazi flag.... the rising sun is deeply rooted in Japanese culture.... it's been the country's symbol since the 7th century... Are you proposing they abandon it's rich history because of it's ostentatious prevalence in WWII...?
Not surprisingly, I agree with most of the things you said. I don't think we are that different in opinions anyway. It's just how we see the same things differently. 1. Germany definitely deserves more respect than Japan in terms of how they remedied their WWII atrocities. German government and civilians show the world again and again they truly feel regretful for what their ancestors did in the past. Japan deserves part of the blame in handling Diaoyu/Senkaku conflict and Yasukuni shrine. And the continuous emergence of revisionist history textbooks would not help either. I agree with you there's no comparison for what Japan did to China in WWII, nor is there any comparison how China developed the nationalistic sentiment against Japan in recent years. 2. Hundreds of Japanese automobiles became targets of vandalism in previous anti-Japanese protests in China. You can easily get at least part of the information in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_China_anti-Japanese_demonstrations 3. I just want to respond to the statement I made you thought it's total bull****. I travel to China every year and that I have been to at least 10 different provinces. A number of Chinese (especially teens) I personally spoke to clearly stated that "I hate Japan so much that I would join Chinese army to beat the crap out of the freaking Japs". The way they said it were so eerily similar that I suspected it's a product of nationalistic education and peer influence. I am not sure why you did not hear anything like that during your stay in China. The only reason I could think of is that you were seen as a foreigner and Chinese tended not to express their true feelings (especially ideological ones) to foreigners due to cultural difference and language barrier. Of course that's just my two cents. As a HKer with lots of friends and acquaintances in China, I heard a number of times where a Chinese said that they wanted to join the army and kill the Japanese whom they hate with a passion. 4. Again I agree with most other things you said. Yes, lots of Chinese teens love Japanese manga and comics and yes, lots of Chinese learn the Japanese language, especially in northeastern China. And most Chinese worried about $$$ more than they worried about Japanese. That's for sure. But from an ideological standpoint, the hatred against Japan is an important element that constituted a mainland Chinese mentality IMO. ******************************************************************************************************* I have said time and time again. What Japan did in WWII was atrocious. Millions of people died because of Japanese occupation and it was a disgrace to humanity to be honest. It was not wrong to hate that. I just merely pointed out that the way Chinese hate Japan could only be partly explained by the WWII history, because the current youth generation in China actually showed a stronger hatred against Japan compared with their parent's/grandparent's generations. And this is the product of the nationalist education that started in the 90s in my opinion. You can either agree or disagree with me. I just want to contribute my two cents to this thread which seems to be an interesting discussion so far.
Reminds me of a conversation I had with a higher up from Tokyo broadcast company. The man bluntly told me that the only mistake Japan made in the WWII is it didn't win the war. This sort of attitude does not make others forget it quickly, doesn't it. Didnt The very best Ishiro in his remainder of the days told a story in the settings of prewar Germany. Yes, we are worried.
Discussion about stereotypes turning into political discussions? Japan: strict people, awesome makers of video games, machines and manga Korean: great makers of kimchi Vietnam: oh my god awesome pho, best food in the world Taiwan: courteous Filipino, Thai: happy Indian: good engineer plus corporate politicians Chinese: smart
Just no... your own opinion doesn't justify the general Hongkongers. Hong Kong people was the first bunch to protest about Diaoyu Islands against Japan, even before mainlanders and taiwanese. Most of those protesting boats heading to Diaoyu Islands are from Hong Kong. How about 9x% of all asian porns are from Japan. Most of the weird stuffs are all from Japan? Japanese are famous to hide their true feelings too in front of foreigners. Japanese are very prideful too thinking they are the superior race in the Asia. Most of those what people called Japanese culture was originated from China. I wonder how old are you vcchlw... you need to laid off those cute and lovely dojinshi boy manga and can't dance can't sing boy bands to see the real Japan. Singaporean aren't arrogant from my experience. Most of them are actually more mild-mannered than us Hongkongers.
Are you even listening to my arguments, or are you just going "Japan evil Japan evil?" Show me where I justified either the Pacific War or the Second Sino-Japanese War, or anything like that. I've made two arguments: 1. That the Japanese colonization of Taiwan, and Taiwan alone, was relatively better compared to the occupation of Korea and China - I'd say Taiwan fared not much worse than the Western colonies which Japan sought to emulate. This is an explanation for why Taiwan has kinder feelings towards Japan compared to Korea and China. 2. That a good deal of the South Korea and China Japan-bashing comes out of the fact that both countries need nationalist flag-waving for legitimacy, and that it's not so simple as "Japan's in the wrong here." That doesn't make Japan right either - like so much international politics, there's no real right or wrong. Neither of those arguments are contradictory with the statement that "After the first generation of Japanese leaders who oversaw the Meiji Restoration died, Japan went totally mad and did lots of bad things during those years." He's not talking about the Hinomaru ( the Japanese flag you know), he's talking about the Rising Sun. I do like the Rising Sun flag in an aesthetic sense, but that's not coming back any soon and I'd rather not have it around.
As someone who is Chinese American practices a Japanese martial art and travels throughout Asia frequently here are a few generalizations: Chinese - China is a huge country and even within China the Chinese have stereotypes about people from different regions. Cantonese will eat anything, are shrewd businessman and love to gamble. Shanghainese love money and the fast life. I was told by a businessman in Singapore that I should find a wife in China but under no circumstances marry a woman from Shanghai because she would take all my money. People in Beijing are uptight and arrogant. People from Chengdu will eat anything as long as it is smothered in spice and are backward bumpkins. People from Dongbei (Northeastern China) love to drink and are tough. As for the stereotype that the Chinese are uncouth there certainly is some truth to and my mom saw a woman step out of a luxury SUV in Chengdu with her kid in the middle of traffic to let her kid take a dump in the middle of the street. You have to consider though that for millions of Chinese they are only one generation removed from farm life. 30 years ago the vast majority of Chinese lived in abject poverty so it is taking some time for them to get more worldly. Japanese - Because I do Judo I speak a tiny bit of Japanese but also look Japanese so I am frequently mistaken for being Japanese in Asia and even in Japan. Japanese society seems to be more rigid than other Asian societies. Having been industrialized the longest of Asian countries the Japanese seem more worldly but also more reserved in dealings with foreigners than others. My impression having been considered Japanese is that most other Asians like Japanese money and products they are still wary of the government and not always that fond of the people. A lot of posters have talked about the issues between Chinese, Koreans and Japanese but even in SE Asia I've noticed that while friendly many locals aren't as warm to Japanese as they are to other tourists. From my own experience I felt I was treated much better when people realized I wasn't Japanese. Korea - I've never spent any time in Korea outside of Seoul Airport but dated a Korean American in college and do Judo with a lot of Koreans. They are tough people who like to drink and who let you know where you stand with them. In the last few years Koreans have become very popular throughout Asia with K-Pop, Korean models, and Korean movie stars so I think Koreans are viewed well by other Asians, with the exception of lingering bigotry in Japan. One thing that I have noticed is that Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese tend to look at themselves as the height of Asian culture / civilization while looking down upon other Asians particularly Filipinos.
You entire argument, throughout this thread, is "I saw someone do it so it must be true for 99.99% of them". TEN provinces agreed with you? Wow... Following your footsteps, I guess 99.99% Hong Kong people are ignorant, stubborn, Japan worshipping separatist who can't wait to go back to Britain like you then?
Actually you're pretty proud of Japan's conquests in Asia, especially Korea if I recall. Here's you happily declaring the speed and efficiency in which Japan invaded Korea http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=7822507&postcount=218
Singapore - Since I've lived in and did my thesis work on Singapore I don't like to generalize them but since this is a thread about generalizations. Singaporeans are perhaps the most aspirational of Asians. They are very competitive and status conscious and they even have a term for it called "Kiasu." This has led to Singapore culture being fairly shallow and they seem to latch onto other international trends rather than developing their own. For example for some reason line dancing is really popular in Singapore. Singaporean society is rigid and the government paternalistic. There is often the feeling that Big Brother (or in the case of Singapore "Uncle Harry) is watching in the Singapore. Among other SE Asians Singaporeans aren't very well liked, except for their money, and the impression that others usually have of Singaporeans is that they are pushy and like to flaunt their wealth. These stereotypes generally apply to Chinese Singaporeans and to a lesser extent Indian Singaporeans. Malay Singaporeans tend to be more reserved. Malaysia / Indonesia - For the sake of brevity I am lumping these two together but also am glossing over some of the big differences within regions of Indonesia. One thing that sets them apart from the rest of East Asia is that they are majority Muslim so their culture and philosophical outlook greatly differs from the Buddhist and Confucian influenced cultures. Malays and Indonesians tend to be more reserved and less materialistic than other Asians. They are looked down upon by Chinese and in Malaysia and Indonesia there has been a history of animosity between the two groups with massacres of Chinese. Indonesians have a reputation for corruption and unfortunately terrorism. Malaysia was better regarded as a place to do business the incompetence with how they've handled the MH370 situation might change that. Philippines - The Filipinos differ from the rest of Asia because of how big of an influence the Catholic Church and Spanish colonialism played there. In many ways it is more similar to Latin America than it is East Asia. The Filipinos are very warm and friendly people who love music, dancing, sports and **** fighting. I was told several times how important **** fighting is to their culture. I felt they were the friendliest people I've met in Asia. They also have a bit of a chip on their shoulder having been brutally colonized by first the Spanish, then the US, then during WWII the Japanese and then brutalized by the US backed Marcos regime. So while they are welcoming to others there is some sense of resentment about the history. They have a bad reputation for corruption which is unfortunately deserved. They have an undeserved reputation among other Asians as being lazy. One big issue is that many other Asians deal with Filipinos only in terms of workers low wage workers such as maids, construction workers and nurses. Because of that many other Asians have similar negative viewpoints of Filipinos as Americans do of Mexicans. Another big problem is that in Singapore, Hong Kong and Japan there have been several cases of Filipino maids being abused by their employers and sex trafficking of Filipinos to those countries is a big problem. Thailand - The Thais are a very spiritual people but who at the same time tolerate a very hedonistic and seamy culture. I don't think it is that they encourage it, prostitution is technically illegal in Thailand, but they aren't bothered with it and are fine with taking foreigners money for it. The Thais also have a very deep sense of national pride in their history having fought off colonialism and greatly revere their monarchy. Among other Asians look at Thailand and the Thais also for sex tourism and there is a big problem with sex trafficking of Thai women (and boys) to other parts of Asia. Many other Asians look at Thailand too as not just full of hookers and ladyboys but also gangsters and HK movies often like to have Thai druglords as villians of put gangster hideouts there. I'm going to hold off talking about Vietnam because I haven't been there.
It was speedy. It was efficient. Those are facts. You saying that I said it happily is your own interpretation. And besides, I made the good mistake of "Never argue with an idiot, because you'll look like one yourself", and WNBA to me is the single biggest idiot on this board, both when he talks basketball or politics. Happily now, I ignore him and I am better for it.
