As of right now, is Lin one of the worst starting PG's in the NBA?

I just listed some of the reasons for my point... all of which he has done numerous times and all evidently are low bball IQ plays... some of which you've even heard Worrell and Bullet make note of in multiple games.. they outweigh the smart pass or play he seems to make on rare occasion.

 

Exactly. In terms of the number of games played, it's still technically Lin's 2nd year, so he has time to work on his game. If he would work hard on his game instead of bible thumping then his game would improve a lot.

 

Definitely bottom 10....but who didnt see this coming. Linsanity was just a hot streak he wasn't gonna be that guy for the Rocket. Big mistake, I saw this coming back in August

 

its funny because when the season was beginning LOF's were saying that lin was going to prove everyone wrong, now they are studying stats all day in computer just to try to prove that lin is an average point guard even tho i know that they just started to follow rockets basketball this year. im sure a big part of them just started to watch basketball because of lin.

 

It's telling that people who disagrees with the OP's premise are using excuses like intangibles and comparison to our backups or his potential or the failure of the coaching staff(always a good scapegoat) etc. etc. etc. Basically everything but actually comparing his actual performance, which has been hideous so far.

AS OF RIGHT NOW, Jeremy Lin is absolutely one of the worst starting PGs by his production. I still like his future, contingent on him actually start making jumpers, but right teams are figuring him out and shutting him down.

 

The Rocket's bigs do a decent job setting picks, but they aren't good at the roll and catching and finishing. Asik can't reliably catch the pass on the move in traffic and Morris/Patterson tend to pop more than roll. I'd like to see them run it more with Greg Smith though. I have no doubt that Lin would put up better individual numbers if he dominated the ball more and took more shots. The problem is that changing the offense to something that would help Lin individually more may not help the team at all when they don't have a big that can finish on the roll consistently. Changing coaches isn't going to change the ability of the big men to finish. Now perhaps D-Mo or Terrence Jones will be better at that, but it's hard to argue that the young and inexperienced Patterson and Morris should be benched for inconsistency, but Lin deserves patience.

Part of it is on Lin though. Beverly looks more comfortable running the half court offense after less than a week with the team than Lin does after an offseason and half a season.

 

Among pg who average more than 30 minutes a game he is 26th in PER. TY lawson who just got a monster contract isn't doing very well either. If you change the criteria to 27 minutes a game he drops to 31. He has had some good games, but he has been very inconsistent. He needs to play better more consistently.


<table >
<tr class="tableizer-firstrow"><th>PLAYER</th><th>GP</th><th>MPG</th><th>TS%</th><th>AST</th><th>TO</th><th>USG</th><th>ORR</th><th>DRR</th><th>REBR</th><th>PER</th><th>VA</th><th>EWA</th></tr>
<tr><td>Chris Paul, LAC</td><td>39</td><td>33.5</td><td>0.589</td><td>37.3</td><td>8.4</td><td>23.3</td><td>2.1</td><td>10</td><td>6.1</td><td>26.11</td><td>294.6</td><td>9.8</td></tr>
<tr><td>Russell Westbrook, OKC</td><td>42</td><td>36.5</td><td>0.524</td><td>24.5</td><td>10.2</td><td>30.6</td><td>5.3</td><td>11.3</td><td>8.5</td><td>23.76</td><td>291.7</td><td>9.7</td></tr>
<tr><td>Tony Parker, SA</td><td>42</td><td>32.7</td><td>0.58</td><td>27.4</td><td>9.2</td><td>26.1</td><td>1.1</td><td>8.7</td><td>5.1</td><td>22.67</td><td>239.2</td><td>8</td></tr>
<tr><td>Kyrie Irving, CLE</td><td>32</td><td>35.7</td><td>0.567</td><td>18.8</td><td>12.1</td><td>29.4</td><td>1.9</td><td>10</td><td>5.7</td><td>22.29</td><td>192.6</td><td>6.4</td></tr>
<tr><td>Stephen Curry, GS</td><td>38</td><td>38.1</td><td>0.576</td><td>24</td><td>10.6</td><td>23.7</td><td>1.8</td><td>9.8</td><td>6</td><td>19.62</td><td>186.5</td><td>6.2</td></tr>
<tr><td>Kemba Walker, CHA</td><td>41</td><td>34.9</td><td>0.522</td><td>22.9</td><td>8.9</td><td>24.3</td><td>2.3</td><td>8.7</td><td>5.5</td><td>19.55</td><td>182.3</td><td>6.1</td></tr>
<tr><td>Jrue Holiday, PHI</td><td>38</td><td>38.1</td><td>0.522</td><td>28.9</td><td>12.8</td><td>26.7</td><td>3.3</td><td>9.4</td><td>6.2</td><td>18.89</td><td>170.6</td><td>5.7</td></tr>
<tr><td>Rajon Rondo, BOS</td><td>36</td><td>37.2</td><td>0.517</td><td>39.7</td><td>13.8</td><td>22.2</td><td>3.5</td><td>13.5</td><td>8.6</td><td>18.29</td><td>145.6</td><td>4.9</td></tr>
<tr><td>Tyreke Evans, SAC</td><td>26</td><td>30.1</td><td>0.549</td><td>16.5</td><td>11.2</td><td>21.9</td><td>3</td><td>15.4</td><td>9.1</td><td>18.21</td><td>84.3</td><td>2.8</td></tr>
<tr><td>Deron Williams, BKN</td><td>40</td><td>36.6</td><td>0.534</td><td>29.5</td><td>10.4</td><td>24.1</td><td>1.4</td><td>9</td><td>5.2</td><td>18.08</td><td>154.9</td><td>5.2</td></tr>
<tr><td>Brandon Jennings, MIL</td><td>40</td><td>37.1</td><td>0.515</td><td>21.8</td><td>10</td><td>23.9</td><td>2.7</td><td>7.7</td><td>5.2</td><td>17.54</td><td>145</td><td>4.8</td></tr>
<tr><td>Goran Dragic, PHX</td><td>39</td><td>32.2</td><td>0.543</td><td>28.5</td><td>10.6</td><td>21.2</td><td>2.4</td><td>7.8</td><td>5</td><td>17.26</td><td>117.5</td><td>3.9</td></tr>
<tr><td>Steve Nash, LAL</td><td>17</td><td>33.2</td><td>0.615</td><td>42.3</td><td>13.2</td><td>17.1</td><td>2</td><td>7</td><td>4.6</td><td>16.94</td><td>50.1</td><td>1.7</td></tr>
<tr><td>Greivis Vasquez, NO</td><td>41</td><td>34.6</td><td>0.514</td><td>34.6</td><td>13</td><td>24.6</td><td>1.5</td><td>14.5</td><td>7.9</td><td>16.78</td><td>122.4</td><td>4.1</td></tr>
<tr><td>Damian Lillard, POR</td><td>41</td><td>38.5</td><td>0.537</td><td>24.7</td><td>11.3</td><td>23.2</td><td>1.8</td><td>8.9</td><td>5.3</td><td>16.52</td><td>130</td><td>4.3</td></tr>
<tr><td>Mike Conley, MEM</td><td>39</td><td>34.4</td><td>0.529</td><td>28.3</td><td>12.4</td><td>20.3</td><td>1.8</td><td>7.1</td><td>4.4</td><td>16.52</td><td>110.3</td><td>3.7</td></tr>
<tr><td>Darren Collison, DAL</td><td>41</td><td>31.4</td><td>0.583</td><td>27.9</td><td>12.3</td><td>18.8</td><td>0.6</td><td>9</td><td>4.9</td><td>16.44</td><td>104.5</td><td>3.5</td></tr>
<tr><td>George Hill, IND</td><td>39</td><td>34.9</td><td>0.537</td><td>23.9</td><td>9.3</td><td>20</td><td>1.7</td><td>12</td><td>6.9</td><td>16.24</td><td>106.3</td><td>3.5</td></tr>
<tr><td>Jameer Nelson, ORL</td><td>32</td><td>35.3</td><td>0.523</td><td>29.5</td><td>10.9</td><td>22.3</td><td>1.5</td><td>10.8</td><td>6.2</td><td>16.05</td><td>85.2</td><td>2.8</td></tr>
<tr><td>Monta Ellis, MIL</td><td>40</td><td>36.1</td><td>0.478</td><td>19.6</td><td>10.7</td><td>26.4</td><td>1.7</td><td>9.4</td><td>5.5</td><td>15.89</td><td>105.3</td><td>3.5</td></tr>
<tr><td>Jeff Teague, ATL</td><td>41</td><td>32.7</td><td>0.523</td><td>30.1</td><td>12.8</td><td>21.8</td><td>1.4</td><td>6.9</td><td>4.1</td><td>15.36</td><td>87.3</td><td>2.9</td></tr>
<tr><td>Raymond Felton, NY</td><td>28</td><td>33.7</td><td>0.46</td><td>24.3</td><td>9.1</td><td>26</td><td>2.3</td><td>8</td><td>5</td><td>15.34</td><td>61.1</td><td>2</td></tr>
<tr><td>Mo Williams, UTAH</td><td>24</td><td>31.4</td><td>0.536</td><td>31.1</td><td>12.6</td><td>21.6</td><td>2</td><td>5.6</td><td>3.8</td><td>15.22</td><td>47.4</td><td>1.6</td></tr>
<tr><td>Ty Lawson, DEN</td><td>42</td><td>34.4</td><td>0.497</td><td>28.2</td><td>11.7</td><td>22.1</td><td>2</td><td>6.3</td><td>4.2</td><td>14.69</td><td>79.5</td><td>2.6</td></tr>
<tr><td>Jeremy Lin, HOU</td><td>43</td><td>33.2</td><td>0.507</td><td>28.9</td><td>14.4</td><td>19.3</td><td>2.1</td><td>10.9</td><td>6.5</td><td>13.77</td><td>59</td><td>2</td></tr>
<tr><td>Luke Ridnour, MIN</td><td>38</td><td>31.2</td><td>0.525</td><td>23.9</td><td>10.1</td><td>18.5</td><td>1.6</td><td>8.7</td><td>5.1</td><td>13.42</td><td>42.9</td><td>1.4</td></tr>
<tr><td>Brandon Knight, DET</td><td>41</td><td>32.1</td><td>0.521</td><td>21.1</td><td>14.6</td><td>22.6</td><td>2.3</td><td>10.6</td><td>6.5</td><td>12.58</td><td>31</td><td>1</td></tr></table>

 

If by production, you are referring to Pts and Ast, I agree. I think Lin right now is kind of one dimensional PG. But I do not think making more catch and shoot will make him better. His FP now is actually not bad. Of course his 3pts are disappointing. He needs to run PnR. That is his bread and butter. Both stats and eye test says that this is almost his only weapon. His driving to the basket is completely different from harden: He is good at getting past the PG or whoever is guarding him but he is not good at fighting a shot blocker. Harden has a rare skill of drawing fouls when he meets a shot blocker.

Lin needs to ask for PnR.

 

Right, only you know about basketball right, coach? or new fans are not allowed to learn about basketball right? You're pretty arrogant, just so you know; but, it's all good Mr. smart as*. BTW, you just signed up last year so STFU - don't give me that crap you have been a long time Rockets fan since 1990.

Now GTFO.

 

Lin needs to work on how he passes to the big man. Asik is not very good at finishing but he is not that terrible either. I would put the burden on Lin to make sure his pass is easier to catch for Asik. Lin also needs to avoid getting in the air without someone to pass to. That's a mistake a rookie likes to make. Lin is doing better at that now but still making the mistake sometimes.

 

Just put him on the ignore list. it creates a funny feeling of the forum.

 

I usually do ignore haters, but some ppl needs to be told.

Just to add to my previous post. Yes, Lin is playing like average right now - some nights he played really good and some not so good - so he is considered inconsistent which should be expected by any reasonable person; even Mchale said Lin and OTHERS will be inconsistent because they are young. The dude's career just STARTED man - it's not his 1st year but he hasn't played that many games. So, how could haters say Lin's fans were wrong about what he could become - who knows really, do they? - he definitely has potentially to become great, it depends on his development.

 

I agree that overall Lin is playing average right now. His overall stats prove that. If someone says he is one of the worst, then there is a definite bias for whatever personal reason. Kind of sad.

 

Sometimes I wonder if Lin fans are actually basketball fans. Because this logic is absurd. The best PnR players are those who can shoot. Literally it's a necessary ingredient to being a capable PnR player. Stockton, Nash, T-Mac, on and on and on. The reason the Rockets don't run the PnR with Lin all the time is because he can't f***ing shoot. Defenders just sag off of Lin and it becomes a failed play.

This is why just looking at stats is useless. Yeah, of course Lin is great on PnR plays. Because the Rockets only freaking run them against guards that either are undisciplined or the foot speed to prevent penetration. Otherwise, Lin is absolutely worthless on the PnR when defenders play smart and give him the outside shot. One that he bricks most of the time.

 

Doesn't mean your membership is any more valid than anyone else's.

And of course the quality of threads/posts have had very little correlation with how long someone's been here.

 

this is just from my eye test (haven't missed a game yet) or from what I recall when I see him shooting mid-range shots (since they're so rare) but his mid-range shots actually seem to drop more often than not. if there was more pnr and he took those shots off of screens, i think he would make them more often than not. i agree that there's more to be deisred from his 3 pt shots.

 

You realize that Harden and Lin are actually about the same percentage shooting right? They both need to work on their shooting %.

Harden has an edge and manages to score points on fouls and FT's. b/c he plows through the trees. ( he must have considered football as a kid :grin: )

PnR would benefit them both. Unless as I suspect the coaches would rather let Harden plow through defenders and draw the foul. I am not sure they are interested in creating open clear lanes for anyone. Weird basketball philosophy to me... I guess we will see how it pans out. good strategy as long as refs don't swallow their whistles.

 

Eric Bledsoe is so overrated....

 

That's a bit decieving considering Harden is doing it against double and triple teams including the other team's best perimeter defender and Lin is getting wide open looks with no one within 10 feet of him regularly on the perimeter.

Who are they going to run the PnR with that can consistently finish? Asik regularly fumbles passes in traffic when he is moving. None of our power forwards have shown to be effective at it. If Lin can't hit a perimter shot consistently then the opponents will just go under the pick and dare him to shoot it.

Lin also needs to boost his 3 pt % by not stepping on the 3 pt line so often. At least once every few games he gets credit for a 2 pointer on a shot where he just put his toe on the 3 point line.

On a side note people like to reference the San Antonio game as what Lin could do if he gets more touches, but they seem to forget the fact that he shot 4-5 (80%) from 3 pt range that game. When he is hitting from outside he is going to be effective. When he is not, it's a lot tougher. He is not as bad as some people here make him out to be, but expecting him to be a future all star seems unrealistic without a major improvement in perimeter shooting and/or an elite finisher to run the pick and roll with.

 

The PG has to shoot to punish defenders that go under the pick. This is not the same as a catch and shoot 3.