Drexler - obtained in his 14th season, roughly 35 year of age. Barkely - obtained in his 13th season, roughly 34 year of age. Elie - 5 seasons as a Rocket, 2 as a Spur, career 36.5% 3pt shooter, only avg'd double figures twice 11.7 & 11.1, hard-nosed defender but hardly a lock for the HOF. Cassell - played 3 seasons as a Rocket, 94-95 was 2nd season, part of trade for Barkley. In three seasons as a Rocket, Cassell never played more minutes, had more ppg, shot a higher FG%, or had more assists than Avery Johnson. In Cassell's best year 95-96, he scored 10.9 ppg. Johnson's 3 years period? - 10.3, 15.1, 16.0. Robert Horry - would have been traded to the Pistons for Elliott had Elliott passed his physical. Even the Rockets management thought Elliott was more valuable than Horry!!! It's a pretty poor agrument that says that Robinson's Spurs never had any player better than a mid-30's Drexler or Barkley. Do the Spurs have any retired player numbers hanging from the rafters?
GATER, let's not stop at the 1995 comparisons. Suffice it to say that Terry Cummings at 22ppg in 1990 was equal to Drexler in 1995. Cummings in 1991 equal to Drexler in 1996. Cummings in 1992 was better than Drexler in 1997. Strickland > Cassell Willie Anderson > Elie early Elliott > Horry Dale Ellis at 17ppg and 40% 3s was a better pure shooter than Hakeem ever had Antoine Carr was no slouch Robinson had a better team from 1990-1994 and that is why his stats look better for *some* of those years, but his teams were dust in the playoffs.
HP - Somehow, I started with the 94-95 team and tried to remain focused there since it looked like you had the Cummings (early Robinson) era wired. I logged onto the Spurs website and downloaded the pdf media guide and browsed it. I may be a Rockets fan, but those guys truly did have some players IMHO. You have only mentioned the top players, they had many good role players. http://www.nba.com/media/spurs/145-200 Year by Year.pdf To me, it just isn't accurate to equate Dreams success to Drexler without considering Clyde's very best years were in Portland. It's not like we got the All Star Clyde Drexler.
I think it's very worthwhile to point something else out. Olajawon had some terrible seasons his last few years. Those years skewed his career average downward. Robinson hasn't hit that point yet. If you simply compare Hakeem's numbers through his first 14 years vs. Robinson's, the difference is likely to be even greater. Too bad I don't know where to find his stats, though.
You're right, that was a GREAT supporting cast; but Robinson was a rookie; took the Trailblazers to 7 games (a hell of a 7th game), and would have beaten them 'cept for an ill-advised no-look, over the head pass from one Rod Strickland, stolen by, of all people; CLYDE DREXLER (hell of a player - you might remember him). Oh, & that's not just an early Elliot, that's a ROOKIE Elliot. Team was coached by L. Brown; then J. Tarkanian, then J. Lucas, then B. Hill, finally Poppovich. Each had a different style (hell Lucas played D. Rob as a "point" center). Brown rode his ass all the time (said he wasn't putting forth enough effort). Tarkanian was, well, stoned as far as I can tell. Hill never met a defensive set he liked: (see Nelson, Don). Again, I don't argue David was superior to Hakeem; I never have. But the matchup is not nearly as lopsided as your rhetoric would have us believe. Most of those stats are damn close. The '95 series was lopsided - but how far above his averages was Hakeem that year?? WAY over them if memory serves. Dude got hot. If I remember, before '94, wasn't the knock on the Rockets that they couldn't advance in the playoffs?? Also, it's nice to argue with Houston fans; I just wish your current team would give us a reason to debate about a subject not nearly a decade old!! (Well, we got to for a couple of months there, didn't we). I mean I have heard the current Spurs crop of players (other than Duncan) referred to as "garbage" on this board so often I have to wonder on what pedistal you might place Timmy?
Actually, Robinson's numbers have slid DRAMATICALLY since Duncan arrived. 12 ppg last year, 9 this. For a career 25 prior to Duncan's arrival, that's a pretty steep curve.
I'm not just talking about his rookie year. He was 3-1, 3-0 first round fodder in the next 2yrs with the same cast and an improving Elliott. Compare that to a second yr Hakeem and Ralph Sampson with both their PGs out and no veterans crushing the legendary defending champion Magic/Worthy/Jabbar Lakers in 1986, who proceeded to win the next two titles. Hakeem destroyed them on double and triple teams scoring 30+ ppg in our 4 straight wins, reaching 40 in one, and grabbing the most rebounds for both teams in each win. They threw everything at him, resorting to actually getting him tossed in the final game by causing a fight. The 1990 Blazers just don't rank up to the 1986 Lakers, much less the 1986 Celtics (arguably the best team ever) who they took 6 games. After that, Sampson only played 60 more games in two yrs combined and was traded. Hakeem then lost 3 other starters to drugs, so really had damaged goods and just role players from 1987 to 1994, until he got Drexler.
my only beef with san antonio was when you fukkers purposely lost all of them games and placed all of your best players on the injured list. (when they really werent injured) just to cash in on the tim duncan sweepstakes. i mean that was cheap as hell.
Originally posted by Go_Spurs_Gooooo Please! David was the best center of his generation Ask fans and analysts in the league who aren't biased toward the Spurs and I guarantee you 100% of them will disagree. - scored 70 in a game, had a quadruple double, was the scoring champion one season, won an all-defensive player of the year, rookie of the year, and a bunch of other stuff I can't think of - Hakeem did NONE of that, What the f... Do you know your history? I would like you to respond to this comment and tell me what statistics you're looking at. Hakeem did NONE of that? ERRRRRRR! Try Again. and the only reason he beat David in 95 was because he had better support on his team. David was all alone out there, carrying that team to the best record and it caught up with them in teh end. Not his fault, just Hakeem's luck to have better help on that team. Okay, so a Spurs fan won't admit Dream smashed David's Pansy ass in the playoffs. What's new? Everyone in the world outside of San Antonio knows the truth. Malone and Hakeem were overrated, David was underrated. That's all there is to it! First of all, for other fans to call us Rockets fans blinded, y'all are seriously screwed up. Malone may be overrated, but Hakeem Olajuwon led the Houston Rockets to two NBA Championships. David Robinson and Karl Malone did not. That's all there is to it.
As far as an answer to the question posed at the beginning of this thread: See all Go_Spurs_Gooooo's replies.
if i didn't know any better, i'd say that Go Spurs Goooooo was just a joke, that he was just trying to get a rise out of people. i mean, there's no way he could be serious, right? but living in san antonio for the past 10 years has shown me that Go Spurs Goooooo is the typical idiot spurs fans. and he resembles everything that i hate about the spurs, their media, and their fans... 101 6 7, like i said, i've had no real beefs with ya. you seem alright.
Actually, 2 seasons later, Strickland was RELEASED and Cummings blew out his knee playing street ball in N.Y. (never the same after that) & Lucas was brought in with his crazy "point center" lineups. You're right, however, the season after the 'Blazers, the Spurs got burned by the "Run DMC" of Nellie - dude just flat shot lights out!! Golden states biggest moment of the decade, actually. If memory serves, Robinson wasn't guarding Mullins or Armstrong at the time.
Appreciate the sentiment, Verse, but I do need to apoligize for insult riddled rant directed towards Gater - I was attempting a play on that French guy in the castle from Monty Python's Holy Grail - oh screw it, dudes stats just pi$$ed me off. HP & Verse, as always, a pleasure.
Why would the Spurs fans care what Rockets fans think? The Spurs have a legit shot at the title this year, the Rockets are barely holding on to a playoff spot, why would Spurs fans care what Rockets fans think? As for David Robinson not having as much help as Dream, let me see, in 1995 the Rockets were a #6 seed in playoffs, and the Spurs were #1 with the best record. I would think that if you're #1 you better have a superior supporting cast.
Why are Spurs fans on this board complaining and complaining about what Rockets fans think? Why on earth do you care? You have one of the best records in the NBA yet you're on a Rockets board upset because of what we're saying about the Spurs and Robinson? Why not go to a Spurs board and rip the Rockets. And this is what gets me, and I've heard Spurs fans say it before: <b>Also, it's nice to argue with Houston fans; I just wish your current team would give us a reason to debate about a subject not nearly a decade old!! (Well, we got to for a couple of months there, didn't we). </b> This is what I don't get, Spurs fan claim they can't debate with Rockets fans because essentially the Rockets are beneath them because they're rebuilding. Well if the Rockets are rebuilding and Spurs fans are tired of debating things nearly a decade old go to the Mavericks and Lakers boards and rip them! Tell the Lakers and Mavericks fans that the Rockets are beneath you and that you're tired of debating a subject a decade old (well, except for that time a couple of months ago) instead of running over to a Rockets board and complaining that you have nothing to debate about with the Rockets. The Lakers and Mavericks teams are elite teams, the Spurs fans consider themselves elite teams, so why come over to the board of a rebuilding team and complain. Go the Lakers board. And if you're using the excuse that the Rockets are a Texas team, well the Mavericks are a Texas team with the best record in the NBA, go debate with them. <b>I mean I have heard the current Spurs crop of players (other than Duncan) referred to as "garbage" on this board so often I have to wonder on what pedistal you might place Timmy?</b> If you heard a few posters, and it's a few posters because I haven't heard many people refer to the Spurs players as garbage, refer to them that way, why do you care what pedestal we hold Duncan at? Are the Rockets even playing the Spurs anytime soon? The Spurs are in a battle for one of the top records in the NBA why are the Spurs fans suddenly coming over to our board and complaining about us!?
Rocks, Taking a post out of context; read the thread before hating to such a degree - it actually flows to this point. Why am I here? Because "NBA Dish" is one of the few places on the web that actually gets play from people with different points of view; Rockets or otherwise. I do post at the Spurs board, but I like discussing with people whose zip codes don't all start 782.... so not only here, but LakersGround, Mavs 2.0, SonicsCentral, etc..I generally don't start threads, and didn't start this one, but it did interest so I put my 2 cents in there. As for wishing the Rockets would improve faster & make the rivalry more intense - it is sincere. The Rockets have passionate fans, and some of the best BB discussion ever was at the old ESPN "NBA" board in '95 during the series which has been referenced so much throughout this thread. Nostalgia, 'guess.
