One of the better Knicks articles I've seen as of late: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...vLYF?slug=aw-knicks112806&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
What I really don't understand about Isiah Thomas is how he can be such an astute judge of talent in the draft (look at his draft picks over the years, not bad), yet he can make some of the worst trades imaginable.
Correct me if there are errors here, but I believe he drafted the following: 2006: Renaldo Balkman 2005: David Lee Nate Robinson Channing Frye 1997: Tracy McGrady 1996: Marcus Camby 1995: Damon Stoudamire
A few years when I questioned the wisdom of signing Steve Francis to a max deal I was thoroughly flamed on this board. Ultimately, Francis never disproved his initial scouting report which was posted on this board several times. It was dead on and ultimately prophetic. It must be comical to hear Marbury and Francis talk to each other in the third person, as confusing as "Elaine and Jimmy."
You say that as if it's been proven that maxing out Francis was a bad idea. It worked out great for the Rockets. I'd say you guessed wrong.
Few things destroy potential like ego. If Marbury had allowed himself to be taught, he would have been one of the all-time greats. Instead, because of his stubborness, he'll be remembered as one of the most selfish players in sports history. It's a shame, really.
Isiah Thomas is a terrible coach and a terrible manager, but his judge of young talent is unquestionably the best in the game. There's not a person in sports with a better draft track record. One night a year, he's the brightest mind in basketball.
To bad all the other nights he's a total r****d! Mr. Thomas has single handedly ran the Knicks franchise into the ground!
Just out of curiosity, do you have a link to the initial scouting report? I'd like to see what it says.
Let's break this down: 1995 -- 7th pick for Stoudamire. Solid/Good pick. Better, sleeper players below (Finley, Ratliff, B. Barry), but there always are. 1996 -- 2nd pick for Camby. That's a bad pick. Many people considered that a bust. That's one of the most starstudded drafts of that decade, and he blew it. He passed over: Shareef Marbury Ray Allen Antoine Walker Kobe Peja Nash Jermaine O'neal 1997 -- #9 Tracy McGrady. Great pick, but he got nothing from it in the end. Besides, he could have had Kobe the year before to go with Tracy (to go with Vince) all on the same team if he was such a great judge of young talent. lol Knicks 2004 -- oops, he traded his #1 pick 2005 -- #8 Frye. Well, remember, MSG fans were yelling for Andrew Bynum with that pick. I think they out-picked the genius of young talent on that one. Bynum is starting to take off at the young age of 19....for the Laker's, ouch, that must hurt. 2005 -- #21 Trade for Nate. Sound pick. Jarret Jack (another PG) was on the board and the very next pick, though. Jack is the better pick. He just doesn't get the highlight reels that Nate does. 2005 -- #30 David Lee. Excellent pick for a #30 2006 -- Balkman...at 10mpg and 3ppg, too soon to really say anything, except to say Marcus Williams was on the board, and again, that is who the MSG fans were chanting for. Thomas is not some genius. He r e a l l y blew that Camby pick. He should have taken Bynum over Frye like the NY fans wanted. Jarrent Jack is probably the better PG pick over Nate, for his defense and playmaking together, and Jack was taken with the next pick. As for Balkman, he's still on the hot seat for not taking Marcus Williams like the NY fans wanted, in the end, they may roast him for that, too.
you make it sound like hating on francis hasn't been one of this bbs's most beloved pasttimes or something. and i don't know if francis deserved a max contract, but he was close enough that it was a foregone conclusion he would get one. 20/6/6 with a few all-star appearances and being easily the best player on the team means you'll probably get a max contract. now he was borderline and didn't deserve one the way a duncan or shaq did, but there's only one max. on the open market with no max contracts, francis probably gets real close to the $10M/yr starting salary we gave him while the kobe/tmac/duncan/shaq's of the world would get 15+, but that's just how it is. unlike many other guys who got maxes (like martin, van horn, finley, penny, davis, rose) he could actually win some games for you. maybe put up a 30/8/7 performance and pretty much get the W on his own. not a #1 on a title team type player, but one that's worth close to a max. it's unfair of the article to lump him in with penny, davis, and rose, guys who were certainly not worth what they got and proved it hugely. now things have gone downhill for him since he got to NY and they don't let him do enough to earn his contract anyway, but he's never been a team-killer like marbury. even as much as he and jvg didn't get along, francis at least tried to do what he wanted. and he and yao still seem to be friends and meet at midcourt before their games against each other. so lets no lump francis and marbury together. they both have limitations, but francis isn't a cancer. and francis got us tmac, so we should be happy about that.
You really can't blast him for picking Camby over Kobe or Oneal. At that time high schoolers were still looked upon as risky. Even T-Mac fell to #9 the following year. Why pick Nash when you already have Mighty Mouse? I don't think he blew that pick....
Huh? Perhaps you have midterm memory loss. They lost in the 1st round 3 consecutive years when he coached. Before Zeke, there was Bird; after Zeke was Carlisle.
I'd wager Colangelo or the Spurs GM are up there as well. They always seem to be on the cutting edge in finding some of the best European talent. Hell they were the ones that really got the overseas recruiting trend started. Actually the Mavs GM is up there as well the past few years.
not only that, o'neal didn't play for the team that drafted him so I really don't know how you can justify that criticism. and then he complains that he got nothing out of the mcgrady pick the next year. lastly, I will never blast a player for being injured or a gm for picking a player who's career who has been hampered by injuries. 1996 as you pointed out, high schoolers didn't go high, and kobe came with a bunch of hype. passing on marbury, hindsight that's not that bad although marbury definitely put up the numbers. shareef, who cares. ray allen maybe the real mistake in that draft.
Exactly. That draft was stocked with talented future stars, but many of them were "inknown commodities" at that point. Camby turned out to be a legit NBA star, no matter how you look at it. Hardly a blown pick. Point is, if you take the sum total of his draft picks over the years, he has an excelllent track record. Even if they didn't all succeed with their original team (see Camby and McGrady).
If people are going to call him a genius for taken TMac, then he certainly can be called "not a genius" for passing on Kobe the yr before. He could have traded down like West did, if we want to call him a genius. I guess people just don't remember the bust the media ended up declaring the often-injured Camby versus all the All-Stars picked after him. mediocre player taken #2 in a great draft = bad pick. So, he's a genius for drafting for need? The expectations of Camby have come down over the yrs, so people look at him as a good role player, but he was a #2 pick in the best draft of the 90s, and he still can't come close to playing a whole season. bottomline: Isiah missed 2 HOFers (Kobe/Nash) missed taking Marbury who was tradeable for a HOFer missed Ray Allen missed Shareef who was tradeable for Gasol missed Jermaine O'Neal missed Peja Geniuses don't make excuses!
