God, if you don't think individual workouts matter, I don't know what to say. If Griffin was as good as advertised, 7 teams would not have passed on him. This is not 20/20 hindsight. This is a fact that happened during the draft. If you read the article, Thorn did not believe any of the players at 7 excited them. Hmmm, the NJ scouts weren't very excited about a player from Seton Hall. Uh, red flag, red flag. As far as HS players taking over the draft. Seriously, what's the difference between a HS player and a 19 year old freshman who was supposed to dominate. You would think it wouldve been an asset, not a liability. I guarantee you Carmelo Anthony's stock rose during his 1 year tenure at Syracuse. One of the biggest knocks on Griffin was his preceived immaturity. And although he hasn't yet punched out a teammate, he hasn't worked hard to improve his game. People suspected this before the draft. Name me 1 time where a so called number 1 pick fell to 7 or below. Hasn't happened in a long long time. Richard's Jefferson's progress has no impact on Eddie Griffin being a bust. Eddie is well on his way of accomplishing that on his own.
A.) Re: individual workouts... Did you not read this article? From the article...Actually, Jefferson's workout for the Nets hadn't gone well because of a sore ankle. Collins worked out for the Nets' brain trust in Chicago, and looked out of shape. But they were all in agreement Yep. It was 2 magnificent workouts that convinced the Nets to pull this deal off. B.) And 7 teams didn't pass on him. Griffin's talent was too much for NJ to pass up, even if they didn't want him. C.) Kenyon Martin. The Nets already had an athletic, shot blocking PF that they used the #1 overall on the season before. Sure you draft to the best talent, but not when you can get a good return; otherwise, you look like the Bulls, drafting Fizer behind a 20-10 Brand. D.) The draft had a lot of names at the top, and somebody had to slip. Griffin fell due to a number of reasons. In a crop of bigs with the talent/potential of Kwame, Tyson, Curry, Gasol, and Griffin, something had to give, and it was EG. If you recall...MJ decided he liked Kwame Brown. Domino #1. Meanwhile, Memphis set themselves on Pau Gasol at #3 as they traded SAR. The Bulls worked out a trade with the Clippers, and went with Chandler over Griffin. At #4, due to Chandlers's lankiness, they needed beef...hence the near 300 pounder in Curry over Griffin. At 5, GS went with backcourt help since they had huge dollars already invested in Dampier, Foyle, Fortson, and Jamison on the frontcourt. Not to mention Richardson had star appeal, the type that Carter had as a rookie. (Richardson hasn't exactly realized it, but the jaw dropping athleticism is there). At 6, with Gasol in the bag, Griffin didn't make sense, and memphis chose to go with a 4 year senior Battier to pair with their foreign teenager over another teen that plays the same position. Hence, Griffin finds himself at 7. New Jersey sees him as the superior talent on the board, just not for them. They draft him, and prepare to trade him. Did Paul Pierce not slip from #3 to #10? Did Caron Butler not go from a guy that was by some accounts right behind Yao on the Rockets big board to #10 overall? Loren Woods went from possible lotto pick to mid 2nd rounder. It happens.
And the sentence right after that was ? ...But they were all in agreement: They didn't like Griffin enough to not do a deal. This is a guy playing in their own backyard that they weren't overly excited about. Look at the players drafted before Griffin. Chandler, Curry, Kwame Brown, Gasol. How many PF/C prospects were taken before him? These scouts had all these players ranked higher on the board than Griffin and so far with the exception of Brown, they have all shown more promise. Of course it happens. Mistakes happen all the time. However, when these other teams started passing on the "best college Big Man available", it isn't 20/20 hindsight to suggest they saw something they didn't like. Griffin's biggest knock before the draft was his immaturity. he hasn't shown anything to dispel that so far. Answer me this: How many players drafted at age 19, fail to improve from season 1 to season 2?
Even the Nets thought they got lucky! But in SportingNews magazine....there's an article about how Byron Scott says Kenyon Martin and Richard Jefferson are the best 2 forwards....will be great for the next 11 years.and he wouldn't trade them for ANYONE.
Yeah, working out a player makes all the difference in the world. Look at what working out Kwame Brown got the Wizards. No, I don't think individual workouts matter all that much. They can be just as misleading as they can be telling. I don't know how true of a statement that is. Some teams filled needs. Gasol came out of nowhere and was definitely the best player in the draft. The high schools don't even declare for the draft until pretty late in the process. I think the saying the reason he went seven is because he had poor workouts is jumping to conclusions. So, if the search function was available you could point me to your post from 2001 that bashes the trade? Clutch, please turn the search back on for RIET! Who cares what New Jersey thought? They made the right choice for their team...there's no doubt. But what did you think he was going to say, that they were enamored with Eddie Griffin, but decided to trade him anyway? Nowhere did he say that if he was in the Rocket's shoes he would have passed on the deal. Yeah, you <i>would</i> think that. I think it's fairly obvious that drafting high school players was "in style," after the rise of Garnett and Bryant. Plus, there is the notion that teams like to bring in a player who is completely "untouched" so they can mold him into whatever type of player they want. Of course his stock rose! And I think Eddie Griffin's did too as the college season went on. However, let's wait and see if some 7' high school freak athlete declares for the draft and pushes Carmelo back. It all just depends on the circumstances in the draft. Plus, it's totally different now. In the past there were pretty much college graduates and a few underclassmen in the draft. Now there are high schools kids with NBA bodies and Europeans with superior skills entering the draft left and right. These players do not have the same exposure as college players, and often don't even declare until late, thus making it nearly impossible for your non-NBA scout to judge the draft. At least we agree on one thing. I'm just a little more optimistic than you that he will be able to turn it around.
I didn't get that from the quote. I got "we didn't like Griffin enough to take him instead of adding depth to our shallow team."
How would we pay 3 first round picks? If we had Jefferson, would we have been in position to draft Yao? Getting Yao wasn't preordained destiny. Trust me, if we kept Jefferson, we wouldn't have Yao. Who would you prefer?
I hope the search feature works at the end of this year when I re re re visit this trade. GRIFFIN WILL BE A STUD!
I kind of quesiton this. Eddie got a pretty good deal of blocked shots his first season. And when he didn't block them he was contesting them. With Taylor out, who would have been our front court? Cato and Collier? Plus, the Rockets were not a running team, and often had to depend on the outside shot. Jefferson is a terrible outside shooter. There was at least one game (I went to it) where Griffin single-handedly won the game for us with some fourth-quarter threes. These are shots Jefferson would not have taken and would be less likely to make. With the Rockets style of play, I don't think a season long starting lineup of Cato, Collier, Jefferson, Mobley, Francis would have produced a better record, but I'm not complain'!
I feel the same way things work out like it is. We're just so lucky to be sucked and get the No.1 pick to grab Yao Ming. Anyway, EG trade still look stupid especially if we did not work him out. What's the problem with management taking guys without seeing first hand how they play?
Here are my thoughts regarding this article and the Nets getting the upper end of this deal. So far it has worked out for the Nets. But let's not glorify this so much. If you really think about it, the Nets acquistions have turned them from a bad lottery team to an average playoff team (not a great playoff team.) The Nets are by far the worst Eastern Conference champion ever. They won 52 games last year, 49 this year. All the Nets have done is take advantage of an extremely weak Eastern Conference. If the Nets played in the west, they are a first round fodder team. My respect for a number 2 seed that has only 49 wins is not high at all. (Or last when the Nets were #1 seed with only 52 wins). They will not win the Finals (although if the Spurs make the Finals, I will pull for the Nets), but it doesn't matter who I pull for, the Nets will not win the championship. Do you really think that if the Rockets kept Jefferson and Collins, Houston would be better off? Do you really think that?? The Nets have an actual point guard unlike the Rockets. If the Rockets kept Collins, he would probably be another Collier since the Rockets guards don't know what passing means. Also, the Rockets had Cato as their starter. And if the Rockets kept Jefferson, he would put up numbers probably similar to what Posey has done (since the Rockets guards don't know how to pass on the fast break.) , and the Rockets fans, thus wouldn't be so wild about Jefferson. It's all about who you play with. I am indirectly saying that Jason Kidd does a great job making his teammates better.
I'm not saying we would have been better, just that we would have been different. Because of the way the lottery works, if everything else stayed the same, the team that finished in the same place we did that year would have gotten Yao.
So are you saying that if New Jersey offered us Richard Jefferson for Eddie Griffin TODAY, you would not accept their offer?????
How about this part: "And we didn't feel strongly about anyone at No. 7, or think anyone would be good enough to have (instant impact). " They weren't excited about anyone at 7 which obviously included Griffin. If you look back at all the scouting reports, Griffin's biggest weaknesses were character, immaturity, and overall attitude. These are issues that can be cleared up during workouts and 1 on 1 interviews. The Rockets (and many other teams) passed on Qyntel Woods for exactly the same reason. It's interesting that both players were caught smoking the ganja. My biggest problem with Griffin has been his unbelievable lackadaisical attitude. If you lack the intensity at 19, what makes you excited at 25? What happens when his contract expires? Do you sign him to a long-term deal? This has potential disaster written all over it. If we get Larry Brown, Eddie Griffin will regress even more. You can bank on it. Larry Brown hates players who don't understand the basics of the game. Griffin can't shoot, can't defend, can't dribble, and has absolutely 0 low post moves. This is the summer that Eddie must improve. If the Rockets don't see improvement during the summer, they should ship him out immediately. Otherwise, he will be sitting on the pine doing nothing but wasting away. Brown has no patience for laziness and Eddie hasn't shown any signs of working hard.
How? I mean, it's a 19 year old kid. Of course there's going to be immaturity. Kwame Brown is ten times more immature than Eddie Griffin. If you're going to take someone that young, the immaturity is just expected. With his demeanor, it's hard for me to imagine him doing something during a workout that would make him look any more immature than every other 19 year old, especially when there is an agent coaching him on how to act. Saying a 1 on1 interview would "clear everything up" seems a little simplistic to me. Another thing to consider is would there be a reason the Rockets might not want the rest of the league to know they were interested in Griffin? When more teams show interest in a player, does that boost his stock? I mean, do you really think the Rockets just didn't work him out because they were lazy and just didn't really care enough to take a look? Please. That doesn't sound anything like the Rockets organization. Now, the fistfights are another story. Things like that definitely raise flags, and rightfully so. However, there has been no reported problems between Eddie and teammates or coaches, so I'm not sure that was really a big problem. Just two isolated incidents when he was young. Unless your Allen Iverson, I guess. So, I'm curious. Say you were Carrol Dawson in 2001. Your team only has enough cap space and enough money for one 1st round draft pick and you happen to have three first round draft picks, what do you do? If you're going to criticize, at least offer a solution.
With the media and scouting now, I really fail to see the relevance of this which you've brought up several times now. The Rockets were pretty lukewarm on a guy from their backyard, Rashard Lewis. Clearly the Rockets' proximity to Rashard led them to make the correct decision in passing over him 3 times, right? Eddie playing close to the Nets means diddly. That was heralded as the most talented big man crop in awhile. Griffin, Kwame, Tyson, Curry, Gasol. Griffin was the only one with college experience. Just to show how strong a crop that was, there were 4 HSers drafted top 8 (TC, KB, EC, and Diop). This past year, Amare was the only HSer on the radar screen, and he didn't go till #9. The Golden State Warriors threw the first curveball of the night when they passed on Seton Hall's Eddie Griffin, long believed to be their desired choice, in favor of Richardson, who said he was "shocked" to be taken by the Warriors. "I guess I made a good impression in my workout," Richardson said. "I thought they were going to pick Eddie Griffin." Griffin was picked two spots later by the New Jersey Nets, who later traded him to the Houston Rockets for their three first-round picks. "I thought I would fall between [Nos.] 3 and 5, because that is what my agent was telling me," said Griffin, who at one time was considered a possible No. 1 overall choice, and who was so sure he would be among the top six selections that he only worked out for teams picking in the top six. "I didn't think I would last past the fifth pick," he said. Exhibit A Griffin only worked out for the top 6. The Nets picked 7. They never brought him in for an individual workout, or interview, which dispells any of those theories of the Nets not liking Eddie based on that. This paper thin Nets team had no use for a thin, 19 year old kid who plays the same position as their recent #1 overall pick, who himself had more or less forced KVH to the 3. Surprising? Hardly. You're definitely coloring the issues regarding Griffin the wrong way. The pre-draft concerns of him centered on his character being similar to Rasheed Wallace's- based on punching out 2 teammates. People were worried he was too explosive, when he's simply the polar opposite. Character issues sure, but completely different kinds than the draft "reports" feared.
