Fine, perhaps skyrocketing isn't the right word, I'll give you that, but we have a MUCH better grip on the problem in America, as indicated by the 30% drop in the US in the past decade compared to the comparatively small drop in Britain. My premise is that our policies are working better. "We are on the right path" I said in the inital post. You are just trying to cloud the issue by saying the overall rate in the UK is still smaller than in the US, which I never disputed or even brought up.
How do you guys manage to be Rockets Fans with so much time you spend looking up percentages of what countries programs most conform to your beliefs and such?
I'm not sure what to think...On one hand I agree this is a viable alternative and encourages mutual respect and friendship before any type of physical intimacy or attraction... However, having said that, how does one become socially acclimated to various interpersonal, communicative and physical settings... It reminds me of arranged marriages a little bit and I'm not sure if that makes sense...In addition, you can't create or substitute true love and physical attraction...There has to be a spark, which I think is possible, but without testing the market, how do you truly know...
I agree with you for the most part. It does have a bit of arranged marriage sort of feel to it. But not completely. But other than that its just outdated. Is some woman who's 25 and a college grad, going to be sitting around her parent house waiting to be courted. Its just not pratical.
As far as preventing STDs and teenage pregnacies, There were no Drunk Driving fatalities before cars, are we going to horses and buggies. Again, not pratical.
what is true love?? i would argue that love is a choice...not some condition you find yourself in. there is a blissful state of being "in love." but that's not the same as love. have you ever met someone who has an arranged marriage? i don't think it's for me...i'm pretty sure my wife would agree with that! but i don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it. particularly if it's part of the social structure you grew up around...and particularly given my statement, above, that love isn't a condition...but a choice.
1. Agree with reservations, we had a much better grip on the problem because we had a much bigger problem to fix. Example: in 1995, US rate was about 54/1000, while England/Wales came in at just over half that 28/1000. http://www.agi-usa.org/pubs/journals/3201400.pdf We have yet to catch up. 2. I agree that you never brought it up, however I think it is a more valid measure than the sheer rate of reduction...if you have a gunshot wound and you are able to stop 80% bleeding, you are still losing more blood than if you cut your finger and only stop 50% 3. I think that we're both missing the point as far as attributing the reduction solely to sex ed, etc. or the lack thereof. Other factors (economic, demographic, etc) are undoubtedly at play. With that, I will shut my omniscient, overbearing, egomaniac ass up for the day and try to get some real work done for a change...
Any woman who would be willing to go along with 'courtship' rules and customs I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with. That's just me, I like my women to have a spine.
While I question the your idea that it is easier to get a grip on a problem when it is larger, I also need to get some work done...2 hours to go...
It looks to me like Great Britain's brave policy towards sex education and prevention has succeeded admirably beyond anyone’s greatest hope - this is truly a marvel of public policy and should be adapted to cover the entire planet.
"True Love" is one of those things that we must define for ourselves. That said, I concur on the choice definition, but one must wonder whether the choice leads to love or love leads to the choice... it seems to me to be more of a chicken and egg thing. And I really don't see the similarity between choosing to spend your life with someone you love and choosing to love someone who's been chosen for you.
Couldn't we fit a new generation of mandatory school uniforms with chastity devices? We could also dope school lunches with discouraging hormones. "Wanna play doctor?" "Nah..." "How about I show you mine if you show me yours!" "Uhhh... Nah. How about playstation." "M'kay."
Thanks for the thread, Manny. I've got to show this to my wife... I can only imagine her reaction! On reflection, I'm not surprised that this concept from ages past would come up for discussion now. In the current climate here in the States, wasn't it inevitable? My wife, bless her heart, would probably ask, "So, in order for things to be equal, shouldn't a woman be able to offer a dowry to the parents of a guy she finds attractive? Anything else would be sexist, rediculous and entirely unacceptable!" I can hear it now.
good points...i agree, you fall "in love" with someone. but often you find that person is very different from the one you come to know just one year into a marriage. at some point, love becomes a choice. there are things i do every day to communicate that love to my wife... so whether we went through the falling in love stage...or she were chosen for me...ultimately, we wake up after some time and find that it's really about a conscious decision everyday.
dontcha think everyone outta be able to make a conscious choice about who we are going to make a conscious choice about ?
yeah...cause it's working so well here, we should really tout "our way" as the best way! i mean...half of 'em work out just fine!
Ok- As someone who is currently practicing "old school" courting procedures with my girlfriend, maybe I can offer some insight. Well, as most of you know I'm Catholic, and that means no sex before marriage. That also means, no oral sex, no masturbation, and hopefully no lusting in the heart. Why?!?! Because not to do so encourages agape, or divine love. You gradually move towards your full nature as a human and more as your relationship grows in and with Christ, as you remain focused upon God. You guys should read C.S. Lewis' The Four Loves for a more articulate version of these views. Another book that would freak you guys out is by Father Morrow (I've hung out with this guy) and it's called Christian Courtship in an over-sexed world. Some of the things he says in there are a little off the wall-- such as no french kissing before marriage. I personally believe that in a healthy relationship where both male and female have this same understanding, then they know that frenching will not lead to further things. Another thing that is good about this way of going about dating is that is makes the person you are in a relationship with, less of an object and more of a person. I.E. you don't want to be with a person just to get what you want, whether it be sex, or anything else that makes you 'dependant' on a person. B-Bob, once again, we'll probably be from different planets on this one.
I love it when the writer means says old fashioned considering teenagers getting pregnant goes back as far as written history - and she actually means Victorian or Puritan morals. Most of the Western world has dropped this as a gold standard and the US dropped this in practice if not in preaching long ago. We are the world leader in teen pregnancy rate as those stats reveal for many reasons, not the least of which is old people thinking they can force young people to forgo what the old people chose not to forgo when they were young - act like I think you should act, not as I acted. Also, the Victorian era was not as pure as these folks like to think.
