1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Around the Horn discussing trading Francis

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by London'sBurning, Feb 5, 2004.

  1. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,281
    Hey, as far as I am concerned, they can only drink Mojitos...or Cuba Libre...or whatever you Canadians drink ;).
     
  2. buddry

    buddry Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Messages:
    273
    Likes Received:
    0
    The offense is also supposed to run inside out. Kind of hard when some games the inside presence doesn't show up. It works both ways.
     
  3. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    7,761
    Likes Received:
    2

    Hockey juice and Polar Bear piss...
     
  4. Charvo

    Charvo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,861
    Likes Received:
    0
    Almost everyone in the starting 5 of the Kings came through trades. Teams make offers if they know a player is available.
     
  5. RocketManJosh

    RocketManJosh Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    5,881
    Likes Received:
    726
    Did you ever stop to think that you are completely biased in the other direction? This seems to be the bottom line ... When the other team takes Yao out of the game, the Rockets do poorly. When Yao is able to get position and take control they seem to flourish regardless of if Francis is doing good or bad.

    Now its not all Yao's fault, but it certainly isnt all Francis' either. It's a combo between the two.
     
  6. SWTsig

    SWTsig Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,054
    Likes Received:
    3,749
    good idea!!!!

    :rolleyes:
     
  7. Charvo

    Charvo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,861
    Likes Received:
    0
    As much as the game is SUPPOSED to go inside to Yao. Yao hardly touches the ball if the guards don't give it to him. It's obvious the inside game with Yao is not as mature as the perimeter game with Steve. The Rockets went through Steve via isolations in Rudy T's last year. What did that get the Rockets except 2 less wins than the season before the trashed season? Look at the Kings. Look at the Mavs. There were increases in wins every season. Take out the trash season. The Rockets went from 45 wins to 43 wins. That's no progress with essentially the same core. The Suns management given the same situation would have made major deals already with this roster.
     
  8. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    26,598
    Likes Received:
    35,723
    Cool that they had the Francis topic on Around The Horn. I was able to watch it myself. The Topic was "Buy or Sell" trading Francis out of Houston (using the Fran article as the basis from today). All 4 writers Sold it saying they shouldn't trade Francis. Mariotti from Chicago didnt think we could get fair value for him. Cowlishaw from Dallas I think hit it right on saying they should move Francis to the 2 and bring in a real PG. Most of the writers felt that Yao was the problem. Meaning that much is expected of Yao and that him being the REAL cornerstone of the franchise it is up to him to make the team better. They didn't say those exact words, but that's what they ment.

    They said what was obvious...that for this team to be successful YAO has to play well. We will ONLY go as far as YAO will take us. Remember the stat in the Chronicle the other day about the Rockets record when Yao is either AT or above his scoring average? They won a TON more games. But when he was bellow his average we lost a ton.

    Yao's game production tells the story of the game. Now, some of that is Yao not being aggressive enough (rebounds, getting position for scoring etc) and some of it is the team's poor passing. I think it is a process for everyone, something we have to be patient with.
     
  9. rrj_gamz

    rrj_gamz Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Messages:
    15,595
    Likes Received:
    198
    What a bunch of crap...:mad:
     
  10. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2000
    Messages:
    20,886
    Likes Received:
    12,980
    Good Lord, the East Coast sports media just really sniffs Steve's jock.

    This isn't just an isolated incident. And it isn't a nothing incident. Steve put on the major spin control for this situation. He panders to the crowd at the Milwaukee game---no big deal in itself, but along with the "I'm the most popular sports player in Houston, I don't want to make a fool of (Van Gundy)" comments, well, maybe I take them a little more seriously.

    ESPN and its like love the ratings that dunkaholic players bring them. They still trash on Yao. Yao is inconsistent, but if he was on a team that could actually play---ever notice how easy other teams make a pass into the post look?---then maybe he wouldn't have as much time to get beat up. I don't know. It just kinda disgusts me. Apparently sports journalists have no better marshalling of the facts than do those who report the news news.
     
  11. Moe

    Moe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 1999
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    25

    A voice of reason.
     
  12. KMC1499

    KMC1499 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    2
    You Yao only fans make me sick. Yao does need to play better get better position. No layups more dunks. Be more aggressive on the deffensive end. Im not saying Steve is having a great year but when u take away what made him sucessful well........... I know you guys are gonna tell me about his turn overs, his bad shooting i know i know no ones perfect. Not even you.
     
  13. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,801
    Likes Received:
    20,458
    Of course Steve never said he wanted to make JVG look like a fool. This incident isn't typical of Steve's behavior with the team, though it is distressing and has lessened my respect for Steve.

    This post is the kind I dont' understand The other guys are bashed not only for bashing Yao, but for not bashing Steve more.

    There is no question that Steve deserved to be suspended and was completely unprofessional. But to act like Yao's problem on the court are all the fault of somebody other than Yao is just passing the blame.

    Yao gets the ball plenty and there's usually legitimate reason when he doesn't get the ball. When Steve plays bad it's Steve's fault and he deserves the blame, when Yao plays poorly it's Yao's fault and he deserves the blame. I get sick of reading why it's always anybody's fault but Yao's. It's the refs fault, it's Patrick Ewing's fault, it's the guard's fault. The fault lies with the player that didn't do as much as he should have to win the game. That goes for Steve, Yao, JJ, Mo Taylor, Cat, Cato and every other Rocket.
     
  14. Visagial

    Visagial Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,463
    Likes Received:
    32
    Okay, so I just saw around the horn. These ESPN guys seem to think that the Rockets are built around Yao and Yao isn't delivering, when in reality, the team plays him like he's a role player. He's averaged fewer than 10 shots a game the last 5 games.

    What kind of impact can you expect from any player who only gets 10 shots? I wouldn't even consider that an opportunity to fail. Tim Duncan will go 1 for 10 in the first half and get another 15 shots in the second half, finish maybe 10 for 25 and he's had a great 20/10 game. The Rockets don't play that way with Yao.

    Ever since the Miami game the Rockets have been playing back to "if yao misses 2 shots, he's not getting it again." I don't know if it's some plan to bring him along slowly or what, but for once, I want to seem him shoot 25 times 3 or 4 games in a row and see where that takes us.

    If he fails, then at least criticism of him not carrying the team will be fair.
     
  15. Charvo

    Charvo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,861
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is why I say that Yao is best fit for a team that is a consistent winner but wants to get to the next level. That will be when he is truly recognized for his talents. Staying on a perennial lottery team like the Rockets does him no good. Hubie Brown said in an interview with Jim Rome that the hardest players to work with are the guys who coming from losing teams. This Rockets team has had 4 consecutive years of lotteries. Everyone is ingrained in the losing culture so long that noone knows what it really takes to consistently win.
     
  16. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    65,157
    Likes Received:
    32,853
    t-rade . . .tr-ade. . . . tra de ..

    some people just seem to like the sound of that word

    What kills me is people expect us to trade
    AND
    integrate the people into the system in like a week

    I *STILL* say the playoffs last year was lost in the
    weeks following the KT trade .. .took Posey a while to adjust
    and busted up our flow [which if i recall was GOOD . . we were
    beginning to WIN consistantly]

    this is not a KNOCK on Posey . . ..
    I was against the trade true. . . but POSEY WAS GOOD FOR THE TEAM

    it just took time. . then he was gone

    Rocket River
     
  17. Charvo

    Charvo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,861
    Likes Received:
    0
    If Yao wasn't on defense, this team wouldn't be anywhere near the top ranking in defense. Yao is basically the same player he was when he went off for a bunch of points that culminated in the Magic game. Maybe defenses are preventing him from getting the ball much more. Maybe the guards are freezing him out. Maybe Yao is just not getting any decent position in the paint. What I see is an inability for this team to adapt to a style that got this team a bunch of wins. What I see are bunch of streetballers who saw that a lot of their publicity was being taken away by Yao even though it was obviously good for the team record.
     
  18. KaiSeR SoZe

    KaiSeR SoZe Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2003
    Messages:
    8,395
    Likes Received:
    39
    We've been waiting for Yao to play consistantly and more aggressively all year! When Yao plays well we win, when he doesnt we lose. He needs to start grabbing boards, getting position and not get overpowered by smaller centers. When Yao doesn't play well our guards need to step up and take over...
     
  19. u851662

    u851662 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nobody ever told Yao not to shoot, I see Yao pass up alot of shots. Yao is a grown man, he needs to be more demanding and just shoot. I do agree that the guards need to set our OTHER (not just Yao) players up better. I also see that YAO needs to set HIMSELF up better. The only players I give high marks to at this point are MoT & JJ. And even they have their flaws. It's a sad day when everyday the same people argue, flame, and complain about the same thing. :eek: (shakeshead)
     
  20. playahata

    playahata Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 1999
    Messages:
    315
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yao got 5 boards yesterday (in 28 min), that's pretty pathetic for a guy 7' 6. He should average around 25 per 48 min. He's just not quite there yet , i.e a project to a certain extent. We see flashes of what should be coming shortly. Steve is shooting badly and still showing no court sense. That leads to the bulk of the inconsistency on this team. Steve is going nowhere unless there is a max type player in exchange. Yao is going nowhere...ever. This is going to continue to my source of unending frustration.
     

Share This Page