1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Army Ranger Kills Himself--- before we get too excited about Obama foreign policy

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Aug 26, 2011.

  1. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    17,810
    Likes Received:
    3,406
    It is good to remind chickenhawks and others who cheer on our continual wars or accept the flimsiest of excuses to "reluctantly" support the next one.
    ***********

    Not too long ago I talked to the wife of an army ranger who was applying for social security disability benefits because he came back from his latest Afghan tour with ptsd. His wife was helping him out, though they were separated after he uncharacteristically slugged their 16 year old daughter. I believe it was his 5th or 6th tour that caused him to crack. She kept telling me he was a "nice educated man with a masters" who didn't used to be like that.


    Widow: Ranger killed self to avoid added tour.

    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/08/ap-ranger-killed-self-to-avoid-added-tour-082411/

    The Associated Press
    Posted : Wednesday Aug 24, 2011 19:46:16 EDT

    SEATTLE — The widow of an Army Ranger who served at least six combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan says her husband killed himself to avoid a new deployment.

    Related stories
    Senator slams DoD on suicide prevention efforts (Aug. 18)

    5 apparent suicides at JBLM since July (Aug. 17)

    Ashley Joppa-Hagemann says Staff Sgt. Jared Hagemann was scheduled to deploy to Afghanistan this month but he suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder and tried desperately to avoid redeployment. She says he shot himself June 28 at Joint Base Lewis-McChord south of Seattle. She said this would have been her husband’s 9th deployment, while the Army said Wednesday it would have been his 7th.

    An Army spokesman says Hagemann reenlisted in January, and it hasn’t been determined yet whether he committed suicide. Two investigations are underway.

    Hagemann’s widow says the military knew about his mental health problems but did not pay attention.
     
  2. HorryForThree

    HorryForThree Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    2,949
    Likes Received:
    3,882
    Very tragic. I know all the services have been dealing with this for some time, and recently there was a story about the Army's suicide rate hitting a new high. I have a number of friends on active duty, and we've spoken about it but really cant figure out why- is it really just the deployments? It almost seems too simple.

    I also remember reading that suicide is a major problem for veterans. From my understanding the military is getting more serious about diagnosing and helping people suffering from depression, and one can only hope that it reduces the suicide rate.
     
  3. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    47,520
    Likes Received:
    17,246
    The suicide rate in the military is very, very high.

    For the love of reason, bring them home.
     
  4. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    26,765
    Likes Received:
    3,495
    The military has a lower suicide rate than the civilian population when you look at the demographics.
     
  5. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    26,765
    Likes Received:
    3,495
    based on which stats?
     
  6. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    47,520
    Likes Received:
    17,246
  7. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    31,258
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    If I've learned anything from movies, it's that the military turns combat soldiers into mind-numbed psychopaths incapable of fitting back into society.
     
  8. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    17,810
    Likes Received:
    3,406
    Fox News? It seems like one of their statistics. What demographic.

    1) The military does some screening for previous mental illness prior to enlistment. 2) Basic training is also a pretty effective screening device. A lot of folks who are unstble are weeded out during basic training. 3) Needing a high school degree in most cases and a fairly clean criminal record also weeds out folks from the general "demographic".

    Sound like a slice and dice the data talking point from Fox or possibly a neo-con think tank to me.
     
    #8 glynch, Aug 26, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2011
  9. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    47,520
    Likes Received:
    17,246
    Every piece of information I've seen on comparable age groups shows the military rate above the civilian rate, typically from 2008 and beyond.
     
  10. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    26,765
    Likes Received:
    3,495
    Would love to talk about this with Donny but glynch just took a dump in the thread exposing his real concern is how to use this for his own agenda.

    I am against the current deployments but wouldn't use this as justification due to the stigma that suicide still holds in our culture.
     
  11. ChievousFTFace

    ChievousFTFace Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,794
    Likes Received:
    560
    Glynch <------------- normal people -------------> Basso
     
    5 people like this.
  12. RocketRaccoon

    RocketRaccoon Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2001
    Messages:
    3,851
    Likes Received:
    163
    Remind them of what exactly? That here in America we are slowly dumbing down our education to the lowest common denominator. That laws change to satisfy the smallest of minority. That here in the great USofA we can stop wars because a few soilders can't handle it.

    Listen, I really do feel bad for the families of people who commit suicide. It's terribly tough on them. I can't imagine their pain. And I'm sorry that the guys couldn't find another solution to their problem and picked suicide as their only way.

    But this is war and war is hell. Not everybody is cut out for it. Just because a number of people that were not meant to do a "thing" does not mean that "thing" is wrong.
     
  13. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    32,472
    Likes Received:
    7,652
    War is definitely not right...
    In a perfect world...
     
  14. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    29,344
    Likes Received:
    5,471
    A man is dead, and that is a tragedy, but he was free to walk away 7 months ago, and chose not to.
     
  15. Ender120

    Ender120 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,774
    Likes Received:
    171
    No, but there are thousands of other reasons that the "thing" we're doing is wrong.

    This is just evidence of it.

    I'm going to quit now before I get more pissed off at your use of the word "thing" to describe what's actually going on over there.
     
  16. ILoveTheRockets

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,047
    Likes Received:
    62
    How does a suicide and Obama foreign policy have any connection?

    95% of his tour's were because of Bush. So, why is Obama being singled out?
     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,546
    Likes Received:
    114,126
    Don't let facts get in the way of an agenda. Look, I want the troops sent home for a number of reasons. First, I do not think that it is financially responsible, second, I do not think it is our job to "police" those that do not want to be.

    However, it is my understanding that suicide rates in the military are low. The story of the soldier that flips out or kills himself gets the headlines... but would not be news if he was a painter or accountant.
     
  18. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    34,216
    Likes Received:
    13,663
    Roping Obama's name into this thread was... well, basso-like.

    Especially considering the foreign policy alluded to here is that thread praising Obama for fighting a succesful proxy war in Libya in which no Americans were engaged in direct combat (and therefore probably did not suffer from any ptsd). I think the jury is still out on whether that was good foreign policy, but on fighting wars without adding significantly to our battle fatigue, I can't help but call it a success.
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. ILoveTheRockets

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,047
    Likes Received:
    62
    ^^^ /END THREAD
     
  20. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    29,344
    Likes Received:
    5,471
    So, I shouldn't flip out or kill myself if I want to get into the news? Or perhaps I should just switch careers?
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now