Army Chaplain allows dusty troops to take bath if they are baptized.

It is all the same God. The God of Abraham. Yahweh. Jehova. Allah. They are all names for the same thing. Now I guess the small minority that is Hindu, Wiccan, etc. might be offended, but chances are they are few and far between. Athiest shouldn't care, because they have no god to offend by falsly accepting this one. I don't think it is the smartest idea in the world, but I don't think it is as bad as many (including you) are making it out to be.

 

I just realized I kind of switched contexts in the middle there. Everything after "names for the same thing" is more about the baptism incident.

 

I wasnt raised in the Church and my family is not religious although after studying and quite alot of soul searching I found a religion that I believe in. Actually it`s not as "socially acceptable" as many people think. Sure it`s easy to go to Church each Sunday, but it`s quite a bit harder to practice your faith each day. Foy your information, I never go out of my way to try and talk about my faith unless I am approached and asked about it. I have learned it`s better to let my actions speak for themselves. Faith comes from your personal relationship with your GOD. I do not follow a religion predicated on who else believes what I choose to believe

 

Eh, this is no big deal.

 

Oxymoron? A chaplin in the Army who can't speak of God? He wouldn't be a chaplin then, eh? And its not discrimination if its his water.

Outlaw: Why are you so bent on proving that its the military's water? Im pretty sure the army would not just give some guy 500 gals of water for the hell of it, especially if its own troops are going w/out water. Use a little logic here and lets assume the more likely route.

 

Word! Finally someone who can point out the facts instead of letting their offenses cloud their opinions.

 

The where did he get it? How did he bring it to Iraq? Did he carry it by himself? The logical conclusion IS that it's not his water.

 

No it is not. Joseph Campbell explains this well: "No matter what name we give it, the God we have is the one we’re capable of having. That’s something people don’t realize. Simply because they’re all saying the same name for God, that doesn’t mean they have the same relationship to That, or the same concept of what It is. And the concept of God is only a foreground of the experience. God is a metaphor for that which trancends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that."

Batman is right, it is concpets and perceptions that are being peddled. This chaplain is clearly taking advantage of pepople in need.

 

My guess is he bought the water from the Army or someone in Iraq. Bottom line, the military or Iraq would not give it to him free.

 

I have posted in another thread thatI am not opposed to those who try and convert people, as long as they don't do it against the wishes of those people. This kind of negotiation crap is right out of the 16th Century...I am amazed.

What amazes me more is that those who seem to place the highest prority on religion on here, ie those who believe, are the same ones who are quickest to say this is no big deal. I would think that your own religious convictions would give you some idea of what surrendering those convictions might mean for someone of another faith...and to be bargained with would and should insult the very idea of religius conversion.

My understanding of souls from a Judeo Chritian perspective is that only one figure attempts to purchase them by wordly means...

 

That definition only works if you don't believe God is an actual entity, responsible for such things as the creation of the universe, who made a covenant with Abraham. If you do believe, then it is all the same God. He is often referred to as the God of Abraham. Bottom line, if God is an actual entity, people's perceptions of him wouldn't change who he is. If they did, God couldn't exist without people. Most people who believe in God believe he predates people.

 

SM: Whether or not you believe in the Abrahamic God really isn't the point. Baptism is a Christian tradition that carries with it the connotation of Christianity.

Religions of all kinds are deeply rooted in rituals that have deep and profound meanings to their practitioners. They are sacred. I no longer consider myself a Christian but I still consider my confirmation in the Lutheran Church a profound and pogniant moment in my life. It was part of my own personal spiritual awakening and did make me feel closer to God.

IMO, this chaplin is using the sacred ritual of baptiism in a really flippant and coercive way, certainly not in the spirit of what was intended. It seems to me that the whole concept of cleansing someone, emmersing them both in water and the Holy Spirit, deserves much better treatment than this.

As someone who sees these rituals as sacred parts of the Christian religion, I would hope a Christian would see this as a cheapening of a tradition that should be done in the spirit of God, not trickery or blackmail.

Of course the guy is free to do what he wants with his water. But that doesn't make it any less disrespectful to believers and non-believers alike.

 

It's good to have you back, Jeff.

 

No kidding. Jeff and Mrs. JB both have the ability to say the things I want to say without sounding like the ******* I sound like when I say it. Have you guys ever considered adopting a 29 year old?

 

who said i believed in the bible or that my religion had anything to do with Jesus?

 

Is the military that hard up for cash they have to sell water? Did they give him a wholesale discount?

Ok, forget about who own's it. Don't you agree that this sends the wrong message to Iraqi muslims? Many of them already do not trust us or our motives. Things like this just make it worse.

 

Sorry dn1282 when you said "I believe in God and I'm religious" I assumed.............my bad.

 

Outcome of this chaplain's actions: soldiers get a bath
Price: Listen to 1.5 hours of some guy talking and appearing to agree with him

My experience with army chaplains has been that most of them are way out there. They're a product of the system, really. Play the political game, preach a toned down, universal feel good message, and you will probably get promoted. Their "congregation" of soldiers is constantly in flux, so they rarely have a uniform church body to be spiritually accountable to. They usually stay at any one post for only two years as well. From what I remember, there are four categories of chaplains: Catholic, Muslim, Mormon, and Christian Protestant. Since there are numerous denominations and groups that are grouped within that last category, you can imagine what kind of comprimises a protestant chaplain has to make to keep his job.

From the article, this guy is not expecting conversions. He's only trying to give these soldiers a better understanding of who God is to him while grouping the message with a refreshing dip in his pool. Baptism isn't conversion. It's just a bath in front of other people.

 

Army clears Houston chaplain in inquiry over Iraq baptisms
By ROSANNA RUIZ
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle


The Army has cleared a Baptist chaplain from Houston of any wrongdoing stemming from a published report he offered filthy U.S. soldiers a dip in his 500-gallon pool in Iraq if they agreed to be baptized.

The Army determined that Josh Llano, 32, did not coerce any soldiers into conversion as an April 4 Miami Herald article indicated. The article generated numerous complaints that led the chaplain chief, Maj. Gen. Gaylord Gunhus, to call for an inquiry.

Lt. Col. Eric Wester, spokesman for the Chaplain Corps in Virginia, said the Army also disputes the article's contention that Llano's pool was the only such source of water during a shortage at Camp Bushmaster.

The article said thousands of Army V Corps combat support troops were filthy and that Llano's "pristine" pool offered soldiers a chance to be "clean for the first time in weeks."

"The implication that soldiers were without water for hygiene or other purposes was false," Wester said.

"All needs for water were met before this chaplain was offered water to provide for immersion purposes."

Mark Seibel, the Herald's managing editor, defended the article in a report about the Army's findings.

Wester said Llano does not recall saying, "It's simple. They want water. I have it, as long as they agree to get baptized."

The Army said Llano has conducted 57 baptisms at Camp Bushmaster, where he is assigned with the support unit, but that only a few converted to the Baptist faith.

"Most were soldiers who already practiced a Christian religion and wanted to be baptized either as reaffirmation of their faith or because they had never been baptized," the Army said.