It's like Joker said... people just want a plan, no matter how F'ed up the plan is. You report 12 soldiers KIA or bombed on a convoy and it just glazes over the public. You have a shooting in your backyard and all hell breaks loose. I mean come on, it would be the same in your neighborhood. Some crackhead in the ghetto gets knifed up and he might show up in the obituaries. Somebody gets knifed to death in you neighborhood and it would be all over the news and there would probably be town meetings to resolve the "crime problem." -V
Y'all are jumping to conclusions about this since we don't even know for a certain that Islam had anything to do with this. I posted earlier that the FBI isn't sure that the blog postings are really his. Given though how much blood has been shed by atheistic movements in the last 100 years I'm not sure its any less deadly. Fanaticism is fanaticism whether its in the name of religion or a secular movement.
So in your mind it is OK for Bush to look bad but not Obama in other word you have another standard for Obama? Also just curious did you vote for Obama?
and if we are, we should expect people like him to give full support to obama like the vast majority of liberals gave bush in the months following 9/11.
A fellow congregant at my church is a psychiatrist with the VA hospital who counsels soldiers with PTSD and other issues from the violence of war. He's said that this job puts tremendous stress on him as he helps bear the burdens of all these atrocities. I can see that being a contributing factor for this guy. It's a shame because, even if he was stuck in the Army, there were other options for him. As a shrink, shouldn't he have seen the problem arising? Couldn't he prescribe drugs for himself or seek treatment from colleagues? My interpretation: I wouldn't blame the theology of his religion. I think he identified with the suffering of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan because of their common religious bond. He comes to oppose the wars and laments the atrocities confessed to him by patients. The insensitivity of his fellow soldiers to the Muslim suffering that he feels gets under his skin. They persecute him for being Muslim, lumping him in with the terrorists and he feels disconnected from his Christian comrades. The soldiers reject him as a Palestinian and Muslim, and he feels empathy for the soldiers' Muslim victims (the "collateral damage", at least). But, he feels trapped. He hoped Obama would end the wars, but he won't. He tries to get out of his obligations, but cannot. They are forcing him to fight wars he feels are unjust. The stress gets to him and he lashes out in this fashion. Ever read Catch-22?
Bush did look bad. In his only defense he was informed of the situation in front of cameras. Obama obviously knew of the Ft Hood situation before taking the stage. I thought he should have handled it sooner, if not right off the top. He could have gotten to his shout outs later. Maybe the situation yesterday was above his pay grade, I'm not sure.
Both tragedies, albeit on vastly different scales, and how Presidents handled them. Enough of Obama. I'm anxious to hear what the shooter has to say about his motives. Is it wrong to wish he would have just shot himself?
Where did you get that? The latest: http://www.kxxv.com/Global/story.asp?S=11457561 The president ordered U.S. flags at the White House and other federal agencies to be flown at half-staff until Veterans Day, Nov. 11, as a tribute to those who lost their lives. Is that ok or is he making too much out of this?
I think this is pretty classic, for any person/doctor/psych looking at himself or herself. You can't get a good perspective on an issue when you inhabit it. It's kind of basic geometry. btw, I've heard the same thing about shouldering the burden of many combat vets -- just the most intense psych work one can imagine.
nope that was not my reason at all for posting this thread. It's a national tragedy and big news so just wanted to start a discussion on it.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6706442.html Army: Fort Hood suspect shouted religious slogan before firing 13 die, 28 in stable condition; gunman still hospitalized By SCOTT HUDDLESTON and SIG CHRISTENSON CHRONICLE NEWS SERVICE FORT HOOD — An Army psychiatrist about to be deployed to a combat zone overseas shouted a religious slogan in Arabic before fatally shooting 13 people — including 12 soldiers — and injuring 28 others at this sprawling Central Texas military post on Thursday. Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, the base commander at Fort Hood, said on NBC's Today Show that witnesses heard Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan shout "Allahu Akbar!" before opening fire. The phrase means "God is great!" in Arabic. The death toll rose by one overnight when one of the wounded died. Today, Col. John Rossi said all the wounded were in stable condition, including the suspect and the policewoman who shot him, Sgt. Kimberly Munley, 34. “It was an amazing and an aggressive performance by this police officer,” said Cone, praising her for stopping the gunman despite already being wounded herself.
Well history has been long enough to show us that fanaticism of ANY kind can be taught and expressed, religion need not be present although it could facilitate fanaticism. I am surprised that no one has mentioned the fact that he is an ethnic PALESTINIAN and the Imam at the mosque he attended back in the northeast says Hasan listed his nationality as "Palestinian", even though he was born in the USA and clearly was not a Palestinian national. Having known a lot of Palestinians, I am well acquainted with their ferverent nationalism and combative attitudes about USA foreign policy being largely to blame for Israeli actions against their people. Palestinians also tend to be very close to each other and they have a strong sense of community, they see almost everything in their lives from the prism of their Palestinian struggle, even the ones who are born and grew up here tend to see all politics boiling down to one cause: Palestinian statehood. You guys are neglecting to mention the one form of fanaticism which has caused far more deaths and pain and suffering in the world than all world religions combined: nationlism. Religion can be and often is a good vehicle to nurture nationalist causes, but it seldom is the cause or the end. So far I am more inclined to blame Hasan's troubles as an Arab Muslim in the military following 9/11 and his inability to get out of that environment as THE real force behind his actions. Just because he might have colored it in religious rhetoric does not mean religion itself is to blame, clearly he had other demons he was grappling with and he may have used religion in the end to justify what he was about to do in his own mind. I dont know, I often see religion as an easy scapegoat for people to try and make sense of things. But when you break it down, religion is rarely the real motivation behind an action like this. The real grievances are almost always political in nature, religion may facilitate these actions by providing some easily acceptable justification for them, but other justifications can also be used if religion is absent from the picture, it would be naive to claim otherwise.
My friend has told me that onw of the worst job, the one they all hate is "bereavement counselling", often times with the parents of the young guys killed in Dubya's War.
Would like to hear more about this. I hope she was wearing sunglasses and kept a toothpick in the corner of her mouth during the entire exchange.
Foas - now I see why you generally stick to one liners. Profound embarrassment is just a extra sentence or two away for you....in this case, your ham-fisted attempt to equate a tragic, yet isolated shooting spree with the greatest national security disaster/emergency of our lifetime. Stay frosty bro.
for many, religion and politics are so intertwined they are difficult to distinguish. what you believe about God affects what you believe about humanity which may affect your political views. i personally can't compartmentalize my life that way.
Any comparison between this and 9/11 is just plain stupid. At best this is no more tragic than the VTech shooting spree or Columbine. Basically you had a lone gunman go back to the place where he works, a place that made him full of resentment and left him caught up in a helpless situation where he was being forced to do something he did not want to do, and he shoots up his co-workers. That is it, end of story, there is no larger narrative here. It is a national tragedy, but even then I would be lying if I said I did not feel much worse when Columbine happened, because of all the kids that were caught up in that. At least in this situation these are professional soldiers and they are trained to believe that death is always knocking on the door, it is their profession. So yes very tragic and lessons can be learned from this, but lets not go overboard in reacting to this incident.
