So do the gun-supporters really think it was a *good* thing that this guy escalated a robbery into a shootout in a restaurant that was busy and "usually crowded with schoolchildren and people getting out of work early"? Regardless of how good the customer is with a gun, he escalated the situation, putting more lives in danger. We know the customer got shot several times - what if the robber had hit a bystander instead? Retail employees are almost always trained to NOT escalate situations for very good reasons - life is more important than money.
That assumes that the robber would not have shot anyone. A McDonalds in Pittsburgh (where I live) had a robbery a couple of years ago, and people were shot and killed without any customer going commando with his own gun. I'm not saying everyone carrying guns will end crime. I'm not sure where I stand on gun issues, so I'm not trying to take an opposing viewpoint. I just confuse myself in these issues...
Too bad the life threatening robber had to learn that lesson the hard way, but it is a good thing he did.
Agreed - but the vast, vast majority of armed robberies end without shooting unless the victim escalates the situation. Especially if the guy initially just waved his gun as a threat as opposed to just came in shooting.
The robber is dead. It was a good thing, period. John Landers is a hero. link :http://www.miamiherald.com/884/story/970060.html Teen robber killed at Burger King had lengthy juvenile record The teen shot and killed in a robbery attempt at a Miami Burger King had been arrested several times as a minor. By JENNIFER LEBOVICH jlebovich@MiamiHerald.com Long before Johnny Jean-Baptiste was shot dead trying to rob a Burger King on Tuesday, the Miami teenager was a familiar face to police. State records show the 18-year-old had been in trouble for selling cocaine and mar1juana, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon, resisting an officer with violence and carjacking. In all, he had been arrested more than a dozen times. His run-ins with the law began when he was 15. He was first arrested in January 2006 for selling cocaine and mar1juana. A few weeks later, he was charged with burglary followed by a battery charge in October 2006. Within a year, police would again arrest him for aggravated battery and assault with a weapon and assault on a law enforcement officer. Last September, he was booked for burglary, kidnapping and strong arm robbery. The disposition of the charges are not made public because he was charged as a juvenile. His last arrest: a carjacking in October. On Tuesday, Jean-Baptiste was out on bond awaiting trial for the carjacking charge when he walked into a Burger King at 5398 Biscayne Blvd. around 4 p.m. Wearing a ski mask and black gloves, say police, the teen pointed a semiautomatic Bryco .380 at the people behind the counter. Customer John Landers, armed with a 9 mm Glock and a concealed weapons permit, saw the teen and confronted him, telling him to put down the gun. WEAPON FIRED Jean-Baptiste refused and fired his weapon. Landers, 45, fired back. Within moments, Jean-Baptiste lay dead on the floor of the fast-food restaurant, while Landers had bullet wounds to his chest, shoulder and arm. No one else inside the store -- which is usually crowded with children leaving a nearby school and adults getting off work -- was injured. Police said a someone in a car was seen driving off from the Burger King, but it's unclear if the driver is connected to the robbery attempt. Landers was taken to Ryder Trauma Center at Jackson Memorial Hospital, where he remains in stable condition, police said. A hospital spokeswoman said he was unavailable for comment. PHOTOGRAPHER A neighbor said Landers, who lives in Hollywood with his wife, works as a photographer and writer. Landers' wife, said the neighbor, is a teacher. ''You have this feeling around him. If something bad happens, you can rely on him,'' said his neighbor, Anna Carina Nylander, 42. Anyone with information is asked to call Miami-Dade Crime Stoppers at 305-471-TIPS. I think I found some of the guy's other shooting: NOT BAD! http://www.modelmayhem.com/3202 Here is his myspace: http://www.myspace.com/saintjohn17
As someone who sways back and forth on the gun rights scale, and has yet to make up his mind, I'm seriously disappointed in your response.
I said it was a good thing that he shot and killed the robber. Landers protected his community like more people should. What more do you want? I am at a loss.
You don't judge decisions by the results, but rather the expected results. Was there a greater chance of an innocent person being killed if the hero did nothing instead of escalating the situation into a shootout? I think that's the more important question.
There was a great chance period. If anyone was to be hurt, the robber was to blame. It was his deliberate, life threatening, criminal intentions that put people in danger. There really should be no argument.
This is where I can't decide. Obviously, starting a shootout is never a good thing...regardless of the results. But, I can't really say it was safer to let a guy with a history of violence point a semi-automatic weapon at people in a crowded restaurant. I think everyone that assumes it would have ended peacefully is attempting to use rational thought, when the robber in this instance is obviously not a rational individual. Again, I'm not saying that going commando on a criminal in a crowded restaurant is good, I just can't be sure it is worse than the alternative. Its a bad situation all around.
Really? Well, I'm curious what the statistics would show there. What percentage of armed robberies at fast food joints during the day end in a victim getting shot. I think those questions of that type are relevant. In my opinion, the chances are probably greater when the robber is challenged. But it is hard to say without actually being in the restaurant at the time and seeing what was going on. The robber is always to blame. But if someone else does something stupid which makes the situation worse, than I see no reason not to put some "blame" on them as well.
If an assailant is waving a gun around, you have to assume that he is prepared to shoot. If you treat it any other way, then you just aren't very bright.
Robber wants money, if you stand between him and money, you increase your odds of getting shot. If you treat it any other way, then just aren't very bright. (edit: before someone jumps on me, my main point here is that these situations are not black and white as some would like them to be...)
Is there anyone in this thread who considers themselves a "dove" at the foreign policy level that favors the decision made by the customer? And vice versa, any "hawks" who are against it? I assume its pretty highly connected.
How many times in the news have you heard of a robber getting the money and then shooting his victim as he is leaving? It happens more often than you may want to believe.
