1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Ariza [Chron]

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Karolik, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. rhino17

    rhino17 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    18,025
    Likes Received:
    4,436
     
  2. durvasa

    durvasa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,893
    Likes Received:
    16,449
     
  3. crocktees

    crocktees Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    4
    Amazing how every thread these seems to devolve into a Brooks bash. Lowry is a pass first guard, Brooks is a combo. But anyone who watched the game last night should agree the best pass by far was Brooks' half court. And it wasn't the only one. Just so happens that Ariza and Jefferies didn't finish on the best two passes of the night. Brooks CAN pass, but he also one of/the best scoring options on the team. Not accounted in the table was a fair amount of playing time that Brooks and Lowry shared are on the court.

    Much more interesting is the Ariza off the bench issue. I'm hoping when Yao comes back Brooks will begin to choose his spots vs being the last man holding the ball every play. But how will Ariza handle it if he's off the bench, when he came to Houston clearly to start?
     
  4. OremLK

    OremLK Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    17,856
     
  5. Hayesfan

    Hayesfan Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Messages:
    10,910
    Likes Received:
    374
    This may be a silly question, but I want to make sure I am reading this correctly again...

    the top is the passer... the left is the person who made the shot?
     
  6. Hayesfan

    Hayesfan Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    Messages:
    10,910
    Likes Received:
    374
    It shouldn't matter what the sample size is.. it's shots assisted to whom. right? Not an average.
     
  7. OremLK

    OremLK Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    17,856
    I also find it interesting that AB's assist rate to Landry was apparently much higher than Lowry's. Seems to poke holes in that whole argument that's been going around about Lowry being better at finding a player in the low post.
     
  8. OremLK

    OremLK Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    17,856
    Seems like it would make a huge difference to me. I don't remember even seeing Lowry on the floor with those two guys much... so if his assist rates for them are based on two passes to Hayes and three passes to Battier, or something, that's not enough to give you anywhere close to a stable statistical picture.
     
  9. durvasa

    durvasa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,893
    Likes Received:
    16,449
     
  10. durvasa

    durvasa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,893
    Likes Received:
    16,449
    That's right. And, again, this is for games through Feb 15. I posted it a while ago, elsewhere.
     
  11. durvasa

    durvasa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,893
    Likes Received:
    16,449
    What do you make of Lowry's assist rate being higher to Scola?

    Scola is very good at running in transition, which I think makes him a more natural fit playing with Lowry. Martin also, in my opinion, would play very well with Lowry.
     
  12. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,916
    Another masterful statistics lesson by JCDenton LOL.

    Anyway, Ariza should come off the bench with the uptempo crew. We saw a little of that rotation last night and it looked good.

    Bench rotation:

    Lowry - Budinger - Ariza - Hayes - Hill = speed, athleticism, defense

    Starting rotation:

    Brooks - Martin - Battier - Scola - Yao = precision, execution, free throws!
     
  13. OremLK

    OremLK Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    17,856
    I was thinking about the whole "Brooks can't make an entry pass to Yao!" thing.
     
  14. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    38,184
    Likes Received:
    29,667
    You know, I've been thinking about these Brooks-Lowry and Ariza-Battier debates as to who should be the starter.

    Most people favor Brooks and I don't have a problem with it, although I don't think Brooks is that much better than Lowry as a lot of people here think.

    The Ariza-Battier debate is not as clear cut, IMO. These two guys bring different things to the table. To me, the only somewhat convincing argument for Ariza to start over Battier is Ariza's ego, and that is pretty lame.

    When you combine the two scenarios, then there are some interesting considerations. Which of the 4 combinations fit better with Martin?
    Brooks+Ariza
    Brooks+Battier
    Lowry+Ariza
    Lowry+Battier

    I don't like Brooks+Ariza because both are chuckers and neither is a good decision maker (Brooks better than Ariza). That combination is just not very efficient with a scorer like Martin.

    Lowry is very good at running. So he should fit better with Ariza than with Battier who is not good at the running game.

    So then I think you either start Brooks and Battier, or you start Lowry and Ariza. I'd prefer a Brooks/Martin/Battier better, and let Lowry and Ariza come off the bench with Budinger to change the pace.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. Dave_78

    Dave_78 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2006
    Messages:
    10,809
    Likes Received:
    373
    We're not talking about Ariza taking good shots in the flow of the offense. I don't mind those misses. The reality is that Battier, Hayes and Lowry ONLY shoot those types of shots the vast majority of the time. Ariza, on the other hand, often takes poor shots that are not in the flow of the offense and is thus taking shots away from the other players (who ALL shoot better than he does).
     
  16. Alvin Choo

    Alvin Choo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    3,466
    Likes Received:
    152
    Battier and Hayes should not be on the court on the same time. It never works even with the offensive juggernauts of Tmac and Yao.

    Due to the injury of Yao and the starting of Hayes, put Battier on the bench. Rest his legs and play him less minutes. That Detroit game is one of the worst conditioning that I ever seen Battier in. His basically playing with his tongue out.
     
  17. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    47,505
    Likes Received:
    19,631
    I've seen this Argument about Ariza's "ego". Where did this come from? There is ZERO Proof to back up any statement that Ariza has a huge ego over his role on the team ZERO

    If anyone has shown ego it's Aaron Brooks. This notion that Ariza's ego will prevent RA from benching him is ridiculous.
     
  18. durvasa

    durvasa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,893
    Likes Received:
    16,449
    Never works? Not sure about that.

    Below is player-pair plus-minus per 48 minutes. Also, "win-loss" stats from 82games which indicates number of games where the Rockets outscored opponent with pair on the floor versus games where Rockets got outscored by opponent with pair on the floor. Because they won't play more than about 20-25 minutes in any game, a W-L% greater than .550 is very good. The pair achieved that for the 06-07 season and 07-08 season, when the offensive juggernauts T-Mac and Yao played significant minutes. Last season, their +/- was awful together. This season, it has been decent overall, despite a big dip through most of December and January for the starters.

    06-07:
    Battier+Hayes: +10.6, 48-28 win-loss record

    07-08:
    Battier+Hayes: +6.5, 41-33 win-loss record

    08-09:
    Battier+Hayes: -7.2, 13-23 win-loss record

    09-10:
    Battier+Hayes: +1.6, ? win-loss record
     
  19. Karolik

    Karolik Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    5,405
    Likes Received:
    151
    How much do you value the adjusted +-? While it can be semi useful I think it can also be pretty unreliable and inconsistent.
     
  20. Num1RoXfaN

    Num1RoXfaN Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    315
    Likes Received:
    12
    Yes Ariza will start...Hes only coming off the bench to give martin or shane a rest since they have been playing an outstanding amount of minutes.After the two get about 30 min a game than it will all go back to normal.
    C-HILL :)
    F-SCOLA
    F-ARIZA
    G-MARTIN
    G-BROOKS
     

Share This Page