1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Argentina elects libertarian president Javier Milei - Update: Netherlands

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Nov 19, 2023.

  1. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    69,946
    Likes Received:
    47,630
  2. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    20,434
    Likes Received:
    26,462
    At what cost though? It's great to have a booming economy, but when a leader deprives certain people of the same pay, opportunities, or freedoms of choice, then that's when money isn't everything, and certain leaders can be bad. I'm sure women in Argentina feel a lot differently than macho male cheauvanist types about that guy.

    The attached link doesn't paint a pretty picture for a lot of women in Argentina right now.

    https://equalitynow.org/news_and_in...ked-by-wide-ranging-attacks-on-womens-rights/
     
  3. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    69,946
    Likes Received:
    47,630
    El Machismo has been part of Argentinian (and Latin American) culture for a long time. But I know enough confident Argentinian women, they don't have it bad.

    A stronger economy helps everyone.

    That's what I meant in the other thread - printing money, like previous governments did (while enriching themselves and having their assets abroad, in USD), and like the Venezuelan government does, is deceitful and worsens people's living conditions. It "signals virtue" (here, the government is giving you lots of handouts), but ultimately, it is irresponsible and unsustainable.
     
  4. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2013
    Messages:
    20,434
    Likes Received:
    26,462
    I agree there are far too many lazy conniving Americans who work the system to get paid to do nothing. I'd love to see more of those people claiming disability and so on taken a closer look at. It's ridiculous. I worked in a school years ago where some of the parents claimed to be migrant workers, but were stay at home druggies and lazy asses taking advantage of benefits given to them. I went with a social worker to meet parents of a child who was getting ready to start in my class for special needs PK. The parents were white trash, with two families and a bunch of young kids sharing a small trailer. The church gave them appliances, the church and social workers brought clothes for those kids, but I'll be damn if they didn't have boxes of cigarettes on the counter and a satellite dish on that trailer. They made sure they took care of themselves, but those poor kids were a different story.

    There are many born into poverty, who work 60 hours a week and still live in poverty. They aren't all deadbeats. Many do need help. People need a living wage. People need affordable healthcare, affordable education, and more. People need to be able to work in safe environments without regs taken away that protect them. Women need fair and equal pay too. There are far too many single moms, and will be many many more if they are forced to keep a child stemmed from rape, forced to be a child bearing a child, or forced to carry a baby they can't afford to take care of. There is a lot we need, and tax cuts and loopholes for the top 1%, unaffordable healthcare, unsafe work environments, taking away women's rights, stripping away discrimination laws, and shipping dreamers and hard working immigrants back to the country they fled from will make things far worse than they are with time.
     
    #264 deb4rockets, May 8, 2024
    Last edited: May 8, 2024
    Xopher likes this.
  5. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    87,342
    Likes Received:
    86,036
    We've had a first budget surplus that Argentina has enjoyed in over a decade. And monthly inflation, which has been significant highs and impossible for the people, is actually slowing down. Now, that's a really big deal. After several administrations in Argentina doing their damnedest to destroy the economy (Kirchners), Milei is turning the place around. He's succeeding. And by the way, this was not what I expected when the elections were happening. When he was first elected, I wrote, “expect more economic collapse imminently. ” And clearly that didn't happen. And that's a great thing for the Argentinean people. I'm happy to be wrong about this. And by the way, I'll be very happy if I could be wrong about Ukraine getting partition, that seems like a tougher one. But nonetheless, what happened and why has he been more successful than I expected?
    ....
    Second point though, is that Milei himself has been much more of a thoughtful leader in terms of economic policy and his willingness to back down from eccentric and overdone claims than I had expected when he first became president. Now look, unlike Argentina's last several administrations where they were pretty well known to anyone..... In this case, you had a complete outsider. I had no idea who was around Milei and a lot of what was being said about him was a little bit out there, like for not just the fact that he wanted to go after the leftist Kirchners, but I mean, the fact that he had cloned dogs and that, you know, claimed to actually, talk with one of them that died from beyond the grave. And, I mean, a lot of the comments that he made were beyond eccentric.
    ....
    Now, having said that, there's no question that this cost of writing the Argentinian economy, has meant a fall in real incomes, leading to a slowdown in consumption and economic growth and a downturn in living standards and an increase in poverty.

    That is happening. It's going to get worse. And government approval for now, given everything I've been saying, is actually surprisingly sticky and strong, especially if we look at Argentina standards historically. Will he be able to continue this? There's no question, it is a very high bar, and that high bar is not only because that Peronist opposition is still there, and they don't want him to be seen as a historic success, but also because economically, this would be hard for just about anybody.

    But there's no question that for his first several months in government, this guy deserves respect for what he's been able to actually accomplish. And a final point is, you know, I don't think we should have such a problem with being wrong. And you only have a real problem with being wrong if you are so ideologically attached to what you were saying to begin with. And if it's just a question of analysis and you made a mistake in your analysis, you go back, you get the analysis right and you change your mind, and that's fine. Also, sometimes the world changes and so you change your mind.

    But, you know, if the fact is that the analysis is wrong and it's not like I have a problem with Milei doing well, I would love him to do well. I would love the Argentinean people to succeed, and to get out of the corruption and the devastatingly poor economic policies that they've experienced for decades now. This is a country, anyone that spends time there knows incredible education, very, very beautiful and fertile land and a place that you just want to spend time. And they have been run into the ground by poor governments, a series of poor governments.

     
    #265 Buck Turgidson, May 9, 2024
    Last edited: May 9, 2024
  6. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    69,946
    Likes Received:
    47,630
    source?
     
  7. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    69,946
    Likes Received:
    47,630
  8. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    69,946
    Likes Received:
    47,630


    Good.
     
    Salvy likes this.
  9. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    43,667
    Likes Received:
    25,609
    What does the Ministry of Women do?
     
  10. Xopher

    Xopher Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    3,881
    Likes Received:
    5,697
    Yeah great guy. His country's poverty rate keeps increasing yet he is firing 75,000 government workers. Over 57% of his nation is in poverty and it keeps increasing. He is using the Austrian School of Economkcs which every major economist tells you is ****. Whoohoo he got rid of the Ministry of Women!
     
  11. Xopher

    Xopher Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    3,881
    Likes Received:
    5,697
    Just some woke department. Dude got the anti-Nepotism law changed so his sister could be in the administration.
     
  12. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    15,382
    Likes Received:
    6,415
    Where do you propose them to get the money to pay for all of these government jobs? Sell ARG bonds on the global market?
     
    AroundTheWorld likes this.
  13. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    69,946
    Likes Received:
    47,630
    Print it like in Venezuela?

    We need @Xopher to share his credentials as an expert economist with us.
     
  14. Xopher

    Xopher Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    3,881
    Likes Received:
    5,697
    I see you ignore the poverty rate just keeps increasing...
     
  15. Xopher

    Xopher Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    3,881
    Likes Received:
    5,697
    I'm as much if an economist as you are a CEO. (Well a CEO of a business which has more than one employee)
     
  16. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    69,946
    Likes Received:
    47,630
    Not only am I a CEO, I also hold a graduate degree from the business school that has employed the most Nobel prize winners in economics (including one of the main proponents of the Austrian School, who however was more open to government intervention than Mises).
     
    Invisible Fan likes this.
  17. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    15,382
    Likes Received:
    6,415
    And you ignored the most basic question.

    Again sir, I ask, where do you think they should get the money to pay for these government jobs (which obviously are not needed)
     
    AroundTheWorld likes this.
  18. Xopher

    Xopher Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    3,881
    Likes Received:
    5,697
    How do you know these jobs aren't needed? You just trust the guy who doesn't give a damn about his increasing poverty rate?
     
  19. Xopher

    Xopher Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    3,881
    Likes Received:
    5,697
    Yeah Booth School of Business doesn't support the Austrian School. Good Try. Uh huh you're a CEO. A CEO that didn't even know his own company had pay parity. Perhaps spend less time posting Muslim and trans hate on a basketball message board and pay more attention to your "business "
     
  20. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    69,946
    Likes Received:
    47,630
    Thanks for your advice.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now