1. Gore still won the popular election. State's rights are bogus anachronisms that were important before a national consciousness was created. More people in America voted for Gore than Bush, it's that simple. The electoral college, BY THE SUPREME COURTS OWN STANDARDS IN THEIR DECISION, cannot be reconciled with the one person one vote standard. 2. Voter fraud. Many minorities were kept from the polls. 3. The butterfly ballot. Bush has no mandate, is an idiot, and shouldn't be President. Kagy: One can be an American and not consider Bush legitimacy. Residence does not require endorsement. Cheaters. ------------------ Why is it that everytime BC defeats a major conference opponent, that opponent promptly goes on a losing streak? PS. Notre Dame sucks [This message has been edited by haven (edited February 27, 2001).]
That's a great line. They gave Eminem a Grammy; why not Saddam? ------------------ In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.
I suppose it's pretty pointless arguing it at this point, though. I had a conservative con law professor last semester... after having it out with him, he just chuckled and said something like "all of you and my liberal colleagues may very well likely be right, theoretically... but my guy's in the Whitehouse." There's really not much you can say to that. And that's where I'll surrender it. The Electoral College CANNOT be theoretically justified. Try it. Try hard. Won't do any good, better minds that yours have failed. Simply put, liberals can be smug and happy in the knowledge that their juridical metaphysics make more sense. Very poor consolation . ------------------ Why is it that everytime BC defeats a major conference opponent, that opponent promptly goes on a losing streak? PS. Notre Dame sucks
Haven... thank you for posting those two posts. I know exactly what you are saying, and I agree 100%. Excellent job. Gore should've won this whatever way you look at it. More of America did vote for Gore over Bush. Gore did win Florida if you recount the whole states figures and not just the selective counties in the paper report. And this isn't counting all the minorities who by indimidation or whatever other factor were kept away from the polls, and also isn't counting the butterfly ballot that obviously kept Gore from getting hundreds or thousands of votes. You can say get over it all you want, but when it is a race for the top position in the country and you know the right man was cheated out of it, it's not that easy. ------------------ "We're not settling for just getting in the playoffs." "We want a higher seed. There's no doubt. We expect to get in."-- Steve Francis President of the Mo Taylor and Jason Collier fan club! Teams win and lose games, not individuals. Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Theoretical justification of electoral college follows (remember this is theoretical): Candidate "A" wins popular vote in California by 6,000,000 votes. Candidate "B" wins every other state and DC by 100,000 votes in each location. Candidate "A" wins total popular vote by 1,000,000 votes. (6,000,000 - 5,000,000) 49 other states and DC want candidate "B" who wins the electoral college by a landslide. Without the electoral college, the U.S. president is decided based on the desires of one state. Again, I reiterate, this is theoretical. ------------------
bobrek, I'm remembering that your reasoning is theoretical. However, it makes no sense to me that my vote counts for jack in Utah. That hurts my wittle fiwwings. Why get out the vote when your vote doesn't count? Borders are on paper man, not on my heart. LOL. I'm not sure what that means, but we supposedly live in a democracy, Plato's Republic not withstanding. ------------------
49 other states and DC want candidate "B" who wins the electoral college by a landslide. Without the electoral college, the U.S. president is decided based on the desires of one state. But it's not the state, it's the people in that state. Personally, I think Houston and D/FW have too much influence in determining the statewide officials. I think we ought to do an electoral college thing on a county-by-county basis in our state. Why should Harris County have more say than Swisher County in who becomes Governor, Lt. Gov, etc.? ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
49 other states and DC want candidate "B" who wins the electoral college by a landslide. Without the electoral college, the U.S. president is decided based on the desires of one state. bobrek, Not true -- without the electoral college, the US President is decided based on the desires of the people. More people wanted Candidate A, so why would we want to elect Candidate B? However, the Electoral College is our current law -- if it is such a bad thing, it will eventually be changed. That's all we can hope for. Gore did win Florida if you recount the whole states figures and not just the selective counties in the paper report. TheCat, While I would like to believe this is true, there is still no objective evidence supporting this. And this isn't counting all the minorities who by indimidation or whatever other factor were kept away from the polls, Again, there still has no objective evidence of this either. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
B) In the meantime, we stupid Christian Americans will continue our subterfuge in trying to alternately hoard all of the tax revenue we can while simutaneously trying to strip rights away from the heathens. I KNEW IT!!!! He admitted it!!! So? The question was, "What's Bush done since taking office?" I was simply answering. I know. Just commenting. I don't give a damn if we're about to give Saddam a Grammy; if Iraq doesn't follow the rules, I say we bomb em even further back from the Stone Age they're currently enjoying. The funny part is that Iraq isn't doing anything. Sadaam and his military are. The people of Iraq are no different from any of us. They suffer FAR more than the worst we could ever wish on Sadaam and his military. Of course, we were the one's who provided them with the weapons in the first place just like Ben Laden, but that's a whole other topic. You know me, BK. I'm just a big passifist anyway. If it were up to me, we wouldn't be bombing anyone. ------------------ "You know what they say about the music business. Here today, gone TODAY! - Chris Rock at the MTV Music Video Awards
This should be fun. And you know what? That's totally irrelevant. The Electoral College is what decides the Presidency, and it has been for 200+ years. I didn't hear one single Gore support saying anything before the election about eliminating or changing that process. You look pretty damned silly b****ing about it now that you know your mannequin lost. If you think the Electoral College is such a threat to our 'democracy', well heck-- where was the big push to get it overturned during the two years that the Democrats controlled Congress and the Oval Office? Think so, huh? I guess you think living in Vermont is exactly the same as living in Texas and, as such, we oughta just run our affairs the same way they do. Right? And they must have also been kept from the media and from any of the investigators who looked into these bogus allegations, because not a single person has come forward to specifically allege they were kept from voting. Your statement there is untrue. That makes you either a liar, or someone who is misinformed. ...included instructions. And it was handed to voters by people whose sole purpose in being there was to assist them if they had questions. Leaving that aside, I feel no worse for people who were too stupid to vote properly than I do for people who were too lazy to get up and vote in the first place. **** em. Clinton had no mandate either (won two pluralities, zero majorities) and you didn't hesitate to whip out the kneepads when he was elected. If you think Bush is an idiot, can I just ask you to fax me your college transcripts? Because he's got an undergrad degree from Yale and an MBA from Harvard. I doubt you can say the same. As for your last point there, it must really hurt to live in a country where someone you hate so much can win the election legally, win the appeal to the highest court in the land, and still be 'illegitimate' in your eyes. That's frankly one of the most juvenile things I've read in my entire life-- 'I don't like the way the courts ruled so I'm going to pretend what they say isn't so!' Waaaah, waaaah, waaaah. And PS, neither your lumpen and covoluted definition of legitimacy nor your endorsement have anything to do with whether or not Bush is your President. To insist otherwise is to pretend the laws of this country don't apply to you. He's your President and you've got just under eight more years of him to put up with. Waaaaaah. Cite a source other than your imagination or democrats.com. You can't. ------------------ Things are tough all over, I know what you mean... --Damon Johnson
"He's your President and you've got just under eight more years of him to put up with." Boy, you sure seem sure of yourself Brian! 8 years of rockHEAD's caption games IT's gonna be a long 8 years. sigh... ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is. [This message has been edited by mc mark (edited February 27, 2001).]
Thank goodness it'll only be 4... ------------------ "We're not settling for just getting in the playoffs." "We want a higher seed. There's no doubt. We expect to get in."-- Steve Francis President of the Mo Taylor and Jason Collier fan club! Teams win and lose games, not individuals. Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Actually, Gore selected these counties specifically because of their high urban population and heavily Democratic voting tendancies. With all of the chad problems, he gained more votes than Bush in these counties -- which he should have. If you were to count the other Florida counties, which tend to be more rural and favor Republicans, Bush would probably gain more. Since the problems seem to be statistical ones with the machines, and not some organized conspiracy to hide specific votes, it would probably be a wash, with the same results. The candidates did not campaign on the basis of a national popular election, so you really can't evaluate the results of this election on that basis. They campaigned focusing on the electoral college -- and people voted on the basis of the electoral college. How many people didn't vote in Texas, where Bush was expected to (and did) have a huge margin, because it was expected to go to him? What about California and Gore? Who is to say what would have happened in these two states if they had gotten more attention from the candidates -- which they would have if that was the basis of the election. We can guess all day on what could have been, but the electoral college is law, and the candidates ran under it. The popular vote results may or may not represent what the majority of the country thought. ------------------ Stay Cool...
True. True. You play by the rules that have been ascribed. The Electoral College though is ridiculous. Perhaps we can do something about it now so that this never happens again. Takers? Ohhhhh.... you don't think it'll happen ever again, eh? One other thing, why can't we have a national ballot? Those state and interstate highway signs in MT look alot like the highway signs in Idaho and in Utah and in Arizona and in Texas and... I'm not saying that one should 'trounce' those beloved states rights, since everyone thinks that their beloved state rights are always being trounced upon. Waaaaa Waaaa, call a Waaambulance. What I am saying, is that in a national election, it might help if we there were a standard. ------------------
BK: Gotta admire your spunk, though I'm not sure waaah, waaaah, waaaah every swayed anyone or put them in their place. The ironic thing is that politics is getting more and more acrimonious and it is because the country is so divided. Whether it be the election, abortion, gay rights, whatever. Just like Democrats are now complaining about Bush, Republicans invented the "Impeach Clinton" stickers that hit cars about a month after Clinton first entered office. Until we are willing to mediate our differences and find some type of common ground, this will continue to be a problem for us. We all probably should give Bush the benefit of the doubt but it is difficult when you don't like him. I'm sure saying "The Jazz won and that's that," is very difficult for us after that big Stockton 3 in the Western Conference Finals, but it was reality and, IMO, far more important than the Presidential election. ------------------ "You know what they say about the music business. Here today, gone TODAY! - Chris Rock at the MTV Music Video Awards
Our forefathers once had their tyrant and his military; It was called Britian. But the only diffrence was they got up and did something about it as opposed to sitting around getting their asses whipped. ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
maybe because Harris has over 3 million people while Swisher has less than 10 thousand? ------------------
so what country were you living in these past 8 years? that love-it-or-leave-it attitude is really sad. fighting for your beliefs is what america is all about. ------------------
