I started this thread, because I believe many of us fixate on stats, the bigger the numbers the better the player. Sometimes that's true and certainly if you're comparing Levis to Young or Stroud he's no where close to as productive in a CFB environment as these two young men. Here's a guy writing for SI.com for the Colts looking at Levis' strengths and weaknesses... https://www.si.com/nfl/colts/film/2023-nfl-draft-profile-will-levis What I liked in this article is the guy did some research... "...his work with a Canadian biomechanics expert, and it is easy to see the progress on the field. In short, Levis has some of the best hip rotation and torque that I have seen from a college quarterback. He generates so much power and velocity in his hips that his arm looks effortless on the field. He can throw from his back foot or even without setting his feet, it doesn't matter. He (almost) always is able to generate the power necessary on his throws due to his hip rotation." He also talked about the kind of concept/system that Levis would work best in and mentioned Reich/Peterson. On the negative side, he points to accuracy/footwork and decision-making as areas for concern, and compares them to some of Wentz's issues in Indy. I thought this was a fairly balanced article from a writer that covers one of our division rivals and are also in need of a QB. Final thought, a scout that I talked with several years ago from an AFC team told me they always start evaluating a player by watching film. They'll watch his good and bad games, and will even look at some HS games to see how they've progressed and the different schemes they've played in and where they look good or bad in those concepts. Next, they talk to their coaches, but if they have a friend or acquaintance on the staff they ask them first, before a HC, Coordinator or Position Coach (unless they're one in the same). Here they're trying to understand what their coaches and teammates think of the guy--is he a team first dude or a prima donna? How hard does he work? Does he love the game? Is he a good student of the game? What's his background--any red flags (drugs, violence, etc.)? After they get the scoop from their buddies, then they talk to other coaches to better understand the player's strengths, weaknesses, limitations, etc. Ideally, they have all of that insight before they talk to the player themselves, but that's ideal and not always the norm. Of course in today's world the kids have been coached from an early age to be on their best behavior, so the personal meetings are more about understanding how these kid think and process info. I'm probably forgetting a few key things, but you get the gist. The next few months these prospects will go through a series of tests (multiple times w/ different teams) to assess their abilities and potential. We can say what we want about these guys, but in the end "The Evaluators" will have an incredible dossier compiled on every player. We'll get a few peeks at some of the stuff and we'll likely know exactly how tall and how much Young weighs by early March. The fun is just getting started and although we don't own the #1 pick, we're still in a great spot to get maybe still get the best player in the draft.
I like Levis. I think he has a good chance of just being average, though, and that scares me. You could say that for just about any prospect though. The one thing I saw that gave me a bit of concern (besides the typical knocks) that I hadn't seen pointed out - JT O'Sullivan says that the arm angle Levis throws at, which is less than 90 degrees, is typical of a quarterback that can throw with a ton of power, but those quarterbacks typically struggle big time with touch throws. We've seen those guys time and time again. Kind of reminded me of a Jake Locker/Ryan Mallet type thing.
I don't have a subscription to the Athletic article, but it details how Levis changed his throwing motion to deliver a more compact/accurate pass. This article mentions the guy and links to the other article... https://www.aseaofblue.com/2021/5/2...all-throwing-motion-biomechanics-rob-williams I've watched enough of Levis' tape to see he can definitely throw with touch, particularly on the move. He's far from a finished product and there is certainly risk with his profile. Bryce has the cleanest tape and profile, but in a size matters league he's going to have to convince one team that he's the outlier. If it's us, Indy or another team will have to make the move to #1 to secure his services. I'd likely take him if he falls to us, but wouldn't hesitate to take Carter or Anderson if someone jumps us. Then I might consider moving for Levis if he drops to a reasonable area that wouldn't take insane draft capital. I'd then sign a vet (like Baker) and have an open QB competition. If that didn't work, look for someone in the later rounds to develop and try again next year.
https://theathletic.com/2599738/202...ng-power-5-qbs-how-to-fine-tune-their-throws/ The man who helped Minnesota’s Tanner Morgan become one of college football’s top quarterbacks in 2019 has never actually met his prize pupil in person, even though the two began working together months before Morgan’s breakout season two years ago. As a sophomore, Morgan completed 66.0 percent of his passes with a 30-to-7 touchdown-to-interception ratio as the upstart Golden Gophers finished No. 10 in the country. Offensive coordinator Kirk Ciarrocca was so impressed by the work of Vancouver-based kinesiologist Rob Williams that when he left Minnesota to take the same job at Penn State after the season, he recommended the Nittany Lions’ quarterbacks work with Williams, too. The pandemic-induced shutdown of travel and in-person instruction only boosted business for Williams, a biomechanics guru who bills himself as a “movement coach” and has a client list that now includes two likely starting quarterbacks in the SEC, one of whom has also never worked with him in-person. Williams grew up in a Canadian town that didn’t even have football. He walked on to the team at Simon Fraser University in the Vancouver area and played nose tackle, but his playing career was cut short by injury after only one season. That experience led him to a career in kinesiology, in an effort to better understand how the body works. “He is the best QB mechanics guy that I have ever talked with,” said Ciarrocca. “He’s a rotary movement expert. Besides his expertise in how to be efficient and create power in rotary movements, he is very good at breaking down the sequencing of the movements and getting the player to understand what it should feel like and is also very good at creating drills or isolating and correcting flaws in your mechanics. I find him fascinating to talk with about throwing mechanics, and he has been very generous with sharing his knowledge with me.” With Williams’ help, Will Levis is hoping to make a Morgan-like splash after transferring from the Nittany Lions to Kentucky this offseason. As Penn State fans know well, Levis has one of the strongest arms in college football, but in limited action over two seasons the 6-3, 230-pounder completed just under 60 percent of his passes for 644 yards, with three touchdowns and two interceptions. Levis and Williams began training together last May, typically meeting twice a week via FaceTime for about an hour. Levis’ buddies at Penn State would serve as his photographers. “I’ve never actually done an in-person session with Rob,” Levis said. Williams has worked to get Levis to incorporate his lower body into his throws, letting his hips lead his arm and his core generate the power. Williams shortened his delivery to get better balance and efficiency in his throwing motion, making him more accurate and consistent without relying on pure arm strength as often. The upshot, according to Williams, is that Levis’ big arm can be even faster but also more relaxed, reducing fatigue and strain. “I definitely think that there’s more jump to it,” Levis said of his throws. “I can tell from the feeling and result-wise with the efficiency of it and that it has definitely gotten even more velocity and acceleration than before. “I’ve had a strong arm, but I relied on my arm. I had a solid base and I’m strong throughout my body, but it was a matter of using that strength and translating it into the throw as well, and bringing the core, bringing the legs into all of it to bring it even more power, more strength. Previously, there were some types of throws, whether it was on the move, rolling out, when I’m moving in the pocket, that were pretty much all arm. Rather than knowing that way, even with limited amount of space that you might have, being able to use your lower body and the rest of your body to help you in the throw as much as possible.” […] As Williams deconstructs Levis’ delivery, he sees the flawed biomechanics of old quarterback coaching axioms, and the new Kentucky quarterback has worked diligently on fixing them. Frame-by-frame images like the one above of Levis help Williams and his charges identify key positions within their throwing motion, with key words representing his philosophies on the details of efficient throwing mechanics. “For the last number of decades, quarterbacks have been coached to stay upright with their chests up and to sink in with their knees, keeping guys in a vertical body alignment, and that forces their knees to be jammed over their toes,” Williams said. “The problem with that ‘quad-biased’ stance is that the hips are directly under the rib cage and the athletes don’t have any anterior-to-posterior leverage.” Williams’ emphasis on “hips bias” prompts the quarterback to be slightly more set in his hips rather than in his knees, so the hips are behind the shoulder blades, which looks more like a golfer’s setup. “We know we want to move the big, powerful joints first,” he said, “because this is where the biggest muscles are.” To get Levis to make that second-nature, Williams had him do a series of movement progression drills that “reprogrammed” the quarterback to move with improved balance, power and efficiency. According to Williams, one of Levis’ biggest mechanical challenges comes in his “load” phase. “Will was a flipper,” said Williams. “He would snap the ball down and away with both hands and flip both elbows upward, and the front arm would be far too overactive. That was contributing to a looping arm path and created more stress on the throwing shoulder. This was also preventing him from being synchronized with a more efficient lower body because everything else was working to try to balance out the forces.” How each phase sets up the next one in the motion is vital. The opposing arrows labeled “decel” in the third still-frame are a reminder to get the throwing shoulder pointed at the target while throttling down the rotation of the rib cage and the shoulder; excess motion in those body parts eliminates the whip action you’re looking for from the arm. Stability in the front knee and the “anchor” of the back foot are key components in getting a quarterback’s hips to stop square to the target, creating an acceleration-deceleration that helps generate what Williams calls “spiral sling tension.” Think of the snapping of a towel, in which the right timing creates a violent cracking effect. The same principle helps explain why the head of a golf club moves much faster than the golfer’s hands during a swing. Levis says the repeated visual reinforcements and cues have helped him overcome a bad habit of swinging out his back foot, which led to accuracy issues. […] In Levis, Williams sees a muscle car that had been modified with a larger engine but still needed to have the steering, suspension and braking system upgraded to handle the enhanced horsepower — “Basically all gas, no brakes.” The process for both started with eliminating any extra movements while reprogramming the quarterbacks to generate power from the larger muscles Williams wants to do the heavy lifting. Then, they worked to optimize the use of the smaller muscles of the arms and legs for stability, control and accuracy. “More power,” Williams said, “is only helpful if it’s partnered with improved handling and efficient braking.” Levis arrives at Kentucky this month, and he hopes all of the work that he’s done with Williams enables him to win the starting quarterback job for a program that knows it must improve its passing game to take the next step. “I’ve worked with other quarterback trainers in the past, and they do have a decent sense of mechanics, but moreso telling you what to do, and what’s correct, rather than telling you why it’s correct,” Levis said. “Rob’s kinesiology background really just ties into it. I just think that it’s reassuring hearing him actually be able to tell you why, and so you realize in the blink of an eye what’s going on, why it’s happening, what the result is, and how to fix it.” […]
Honestly this steers me even further away from Will Levis. He’ll be 24 when he takes his first snap and he’s already had a massive head start over Young and Stroud in the weight room and working on mechanics and yet he’s less accurate than both of them, and he makes bad decisions in games.
I am fairly comfortable with Bryce or Levis. I think people will be enamored with Levi's after the combine. Stroud is a question mark for me. I would love to take Anderson at two and then move up for Levis. The problem is, where do you move to? It's so hard to know that, if you like him, you probably need to take him at 2, to be honest.
I think the target if IND trades to #1 is then either 4, 5 or 6 to get Levis. With that said after evals are done it may be #2 as you're suggesting. I really want one of those 2 defensive studs to add to our defense.
It doesn't matter who is the best QB prospect according to us armchair GMs - NC is going to take one in the first 2 picks. He has to roll the dice or his head will definitely roll next season unless they finish > .500 if he doesn't.
I wonder if Levis can be used like Daniel Jones. Jones’ mobility is really a game changer. 700 yards rushing this season and 80 yards on the ground today.
So his weakness is processing and accuracy but he has prototypical size and a cannon for an arm? How many times do we have to watch this profile fail in the NFL before teams learn?
No, he is very accurate and can layer throws. He’s good processing too, he just takes too many risks.
Those clips are from 2021…the bigger and more important question did his processing and decision making improve in 2022. i was reading about him earlier today and learned he had offers from Harvard, Princeton, Dartmouth, and Columbia and he’s currently getting a masters in finance at UK. So dude is clearly high IQ and should be able to pick up a playbook pretty quickly. The sooner he learns the playbook the sooner he plays with confidence which leads to quicker processing and better decision making.
Maybe that, and the talent level around him. eta: Kentucky offense has had drafted in the past 2 seasons: '21 6r OT, '22 2r WR, 3r C, 5r OT
