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Are the Rockets an entirely offensive organization?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by JAG, Jan 25, 2002.

  1. JAG

    JAG Member

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    It just occured to me the other day...before this year, when was the last time the Rockets drafted a player who's even average defensively? Is the organizational philosophy entirely predicated on the maxim that you can teach defense, but guys either can or can't score based on ability? Think about the past few drafts, prior to this one...We have drafted ( or acquired just after draft)

    Jason Collier, Kenny Thomas, Bryce Drew, Mirsad Turkan, Michael Dickerson, Othella Harrington, Cutino Mobley, Steve Francis, Dan Langhi, Venson Hamilton, Tyrone Washington, Roderick RHodes, Serge Zwikker....

    Anyone else see a trend here? The only guys who MIGHT have been able to play a little D, Hamilton and Washington, either never panned out or weren't given the chance...

    Is it any wonder that the Rockets play such atrocious defense, when the organization seems to place such a low premium on it? And it's not just that we don't go for guys who are great defenders...most of these guys are god-awful. If I were a young Rocket, I might play matador D too...Don't you think that this is too much of a trend to not be indicitive of an overall organizational philosophy?

    And then there's free agents and trading for established players...Aside from brief sejourns into defense with Pippen and Anderson, these are the guys the guys have signed or traded for in recent memory...

    Glen Rice, Kevin Willis, Maurice Taylor, Walt Williams, Kelvin Cato, Charles Barkley, Brent Price, Eddie Johnson, Antoine Carr...

    Is it just me, or is this so one sided it's incredible...and the guys we did get who were defenders, Pippen and Anderson...why did we get rid of them? Offense ( or in Pippen's case, offense and being offensive). Do we place too high a priority on scoring?

    For all of you who are frustrated by our defensive ineptness, don't you think it might stem from the fact that the organization hardly values it? I agree, nothing excuses not putting in the effort, but don't you think that the fact that the Rockets keep bringing in one scoring no-D guy after another just might permeate it's way down to the players in terms of defensive apathy?

    Just a thought...

    And, hopefully, getting Griffin and Morris signals a recognition that this can't go on indefinately...but we may be paying the price for it right now...
     
  2. Major

    Major Member

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    Roderick Rhodes was a phenomenal defensive player ... so we released him. :)
     
  3. Sane

    Sane Member

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    Cato is NOT an offensive player. I can also argue that Barkley was pretty good defensively. Antione Carr wasn't an offensive juggernaut either.
     
  4. Sane

    Sane Member

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    Cato is NOT an offensive player. I can also argue that Barkley was pretty good defensively. Antione Carr wasn't an offensive juggernaut either.


    But I see what you mean. Although, right now, I think the Rockets have a team capable of playing good D. Cato, Griffin, and T-Mo? If Steve and Cat just tried their best, and hustled their way to a half-way decent defensive game, we can be a very good defensive team.
     
  5. MattsayzIstillbelieve!!!

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    I think the whole idea is preposterous and you had a forgone conclusion well before you thought up this crazy notion. Can't you accept the fact that we just aren't good enough yet in year 2 and a half of our rebuilding to truly compete in the West. Rest assured the next season will see the reaping of what we're sewing here. Except for Willis we are so young its scary. How good we can be pretty soon is scarier to everyone else in the league if they're smart.
     
  6. JAG

    JAG Member

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    No, honestly, it evolved exactyl the oppositely..It started with the drafts, which I think are the purist way of seeing a club's overall philosophy, and I was looking up names from past drafts even as I was writing the article...Then I moved on to players acquired, and it kept getting worse.

    I really just started with the question, because I couln't remember a lot of them of hand, and wondered what other
    people thought..and if I'd missed anyone...and then I found that I could look it up in here, and I did...and the more I did, the more I was shocked at the one-sidedness of this. Matt, if you aren't aware that I always try to keep an open mind, and be fair, even if I disagree with yoy, maybe others would be willing to attest to the fact. I mostly ask questions, and try and search for the answers, not as you have suggested. The remarkably low percentage of people we have drafted or brought in who were good defenders was worse than I initially feared...and then there was the even more astonishing number of stricktly O guys, who play poor d when they bother to play it, and that reaaly floored me. And the fact tha most of the few we have brought in who could play D were quickly let go 'cause they were poor scorers....

    I'm surprised that you think this is prepostorous, but even more amazed that the sheer volume of the data, and the extremely obvious trend it reveals don't make it as obvious to you as it seems to me...
     
  7. bigboymumu

    bigboymumu Member

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    Which team drafts for defense?
     
  8. kidrock8

    kidrock8 Member

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    Jag-Amen. What took you so long to realize this?

    Rudy would rather have an offensive-minded player over a defensive-minded player. I don't know why, but he has some fixation with guys who can't play any defense.

    If the Rockets refuse to draft defensive players (which is OK with me), then why the hell can't they acquire some defensive players?

    LA and Philly made it to the Finals last year, because they have the best man-to-man perimeter defenders in the league.

    LA right now has Fisher, Fox, Horry (good on the perimeter too), Kobe, Hunter, and Fox.

    Who the hell do we have that can be considered a man-to-man stopper?

    Sad to say, I don't think we have any good man-to-man defenders.

    Which makes me wonder why the hell we don't play a zone defense...

    :rolleyes: :mad:
     
  9. JAG

    JAG Member

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    I wouldn't say ANY team drafts JUST for defense...that would be as faulty as drafting just for offense...but if you're asking me which team has drafted defensive minded players in the last few years ( who have stayed around), I would say New Jersey, Orlando, Philly, New York, Miami, Toronto, Indiana, Detroit, Chicago, Dallas, Minnesota, San Antonio, Utah, Denver, Memphis, Los Angelos, Seattle, Phoenix...

    And if I could expand that to teams who have traded or signed good defensive players, it would be even longer...Ask yourselves this question: NOT including this year's rookies, who is this team's best defender?And you are free to include our waking wounded, if you think that Taylor and Rice might be possibilities...

    Thinking?

    See what I mean? WHere do you suppose our options ( What, Cato, Willis!?!?) rank against every other team in the league in terms of their best defender,and most of the comparisons would be a joke...and it would get worse when we went to 2nd, 3rd and 4th best...do we even have that many who aren't outright BAD defenders!?!?
     
    #9 JAG, Jan 25, 2002
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2002
  10. kidrock8

    kidrock8 Member

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    At the very least the Rockets should use a 2nd rounder on a guy who can play any semblance of defense.
     
  11. JAG

    JAG Member

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    Barkley!?!? Are you kidding me? When he was a lot younger, maybe, but in each of his years in Houston he made the players' elected Worst Defenders Team...And laughed about it...Yeah, most recognized the fact that he COULD, when the inclanation took him, be a pretty nasty defender..The common joke was about how little interest he had in doing just that.
     
    #11 JAG, Jan 25, 2002
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2002
  12. kidrock8

    kidrock8 Member

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    Even if Barkley wanted to play defense, being 6 inches shorter than his man didn't really help his cause.

    Barkley was a bad defender.
     
  13. Hydra

    Hydra Member

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    Barkley was actually not a bad man-to-man defenser. It was always his team defense that was criticized. Mobley was first team all defense in college, so he would probably be considered defensive minded at draft time. Rhodes was never anything but a defender.
     
  14. Vengeance

    Vengeance Contributing Member

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    What about Eddie Griffin? I think we got him very much because of his awesome shot-blocking skills.
     
  15. MattsayzIstillbelieve!!!

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    I just think you can't extrapolate that theory from the draft history unless you had it well b4hand. I think we draft for need and talent,be it defensive, offensive, or for ability to mix drinks and roll jays(c'mon Mo needs a little help now and then). ;)
     
  16. JAG

    JAG Member

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    I specified "before this year", and speculated that this year's draft might ( hoplefully) mean a shift in direction...
     
    #16 JAG, Jan 25, 2002
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2002
  17. JAG

    JAG Member

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    1) I don't understand...I told you exactly how this theory evolved with me...Are you suggesting I'm lying to try and lend support to my argument, or am unaware that I've had a subconscious theory about the Rockets defensive priorities which has only surfaced due to the trauma of this season? I have always been honest in here,and take the time to respectfully and fully answer others' points, such as I did with yours, and I don't appreciate you reiterating your evaluation of me a second time after I already denied it...

    2) IF the Rockets draft for need and talent, are you suggesting that they just never need defense ( which would co-incide with my theory that they don't prioritze it), or that every time their name comes up in the draft, the best talent available just happens to be a non-defender..Seriously, the sheer volume of the guys like that that they've acquired seems to speak...er..volumes.What about my question re: their best defender other than the rooks, vs. other teams...any thoughts?
     

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