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Are the new look Celtics better than the Bulls?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by weslinder, Aug 17, 2007.

  1. xiki

    xiki Member

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    Your point is well taken, yet I sure wouldn't want SS at the helm of the team I support.
     
  2. david_rocket

    david_rocket Member

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    In paper I think Boston is better, but I dont know how KG, Allen, and Pierce are going to play together, and the bulls play good enough to be in the playoffs in the Eastern Conference.
     
  3. pasox2

    pasox2 Member
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    I can see Skiles blowing up over nothing (a headband?) and Deng going down with some sort of leg /back/whatever injury. Skiles should get the axe if he can't deal. Bulls will be strong, but have no starpower. Teams need stars to get to the line, and win in the clutch.

    Cs will tear up the regular season. Paul Pierce will be a problem come playoffs. Ray Allen will have Nightmare flashbacks of Glen Robinson. :)
     
  4. KellyDwyer

    KellyDwyer Member

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    I don't know who I'd pick in a Chicago/Cleveland series, but I do have to take issue with Cleveland's standing (if true) as the top team in def. efficiency in the playoffs. That number has to be skewed by the four-game Washington series, one that saw the Wizards playing without Arenas and Butler, and putting up 82, 102, 92, and 98 points per game in a contest with tons and tons of possessions (more so than the SAS series). By comparison, the Bulls held that same Washington team to 68 points in the second to-last game of the regular season, a game both clubs needed to win.

    Vince Carter shooting jumpers in the second round didn't hurt, nor did Detroit's lackadaisical play (rife with blown plays and bad improvisations, as I wrote back then) in the third round.

    Chicago was first in defensive efficiency during the regular season, and with Thomas and Deng improving, they'll only get better.
     
  5. KellyDwyer

    KellyDwyer Member

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    I go back and forth on that quite a bit. Were it any other roster, I'd want him gone. But seeing what I've seen, and knowing that he's taken this group of youngsters to the playoffs three years running, and that he's already coached the Bulls 117 more games than he did the Suns (where he flamed out), I'm trusting him. I curse him out more than anyone, but I trust him. And he's grown, he's gotten better. Chris Duhon was this guy's security blanket as recently as December of last year. And yet, for the last six months, Skiles has let Paxson shop Duhon to no end.

    Remember, he was given a lot of crap to work with in Phoenix. Not crap players, but players with iffy mindsets. Hardaway, Robinson, Rodney Rogers, Marbury, Kidd. Longley and Googs were cap millstones. That wasn't an easy roster to work with, and it says a lot that he made it 195 games with those guys.

    Chicago's bunch is more willing to work, more malleable, and they respect him.
     
  6. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    I respectfully disagree. I think Scott Skiles is the best young basketball mind in the game. Avery might be a better motivator, but he's partially propped up by Donnie Nelson. Skiles' teams are always incredible defensively and sharp offensively. The head-butting sessions with Ben and Ben are well-noted, but Skiles has "won" those, and the team has always came out better. Young players need direction and Skiles is the best at giving it.
     
  7. xiki

    xiki Member

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    SS has a truly interesting roster. I wouldn't trust him with it, success to date or not. I believe an implosion is a real possibility at any time.

    That roster + Jerry Sloan and we are talking title (strong contender, at least). That roster + Bob or Brian Hill and we are talking lotto (even in the East).
     
  8. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    It's funny that you mention Jerry Sloan, because that's who Skiles reminds me of (without the flopping). His teams are physical, a little dirty, and really relentless. They aren't really known for offense, they are plenty good enough (almost surprisingly good). Obviously, the book hasn't been written on Skiles yet, every thing is still potential. But I really think we're looking at a legend in the making.
     
  9. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    I've let go of what happened in Phoenix, but you and Kelly cut Skiles a little more slack than I think he deserves. This upcoming season will say a lot about him. I want to be wrong, but my hunch is his act wears thin with the players. Skiles didn't get along with Chandler so now they are stuck with Big Ben and his enormous contract. Of course, Big Ben and Skiles don't get along either.
     
  10. xiki

    xiki Member

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    The Bulls need to start strong to avert an implosion IMO. Big Ben has big talent but also a big propensity for being a locker room lawyer.
     
  11. KellyDwyer

    KellyDwyer Member

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    I wouldn't want Sloan's two-man offense for this team. The Bulls need that open, motion attack just to keep afloat because of the team's offensive limitations. Also, Sloan's pace is too slow -- Skiles lets the team run. They're always amongst the top 6 or 7 in pace factor.

    I love Chandler, and was one of the few Bulls fans who had his back following 2005-06. That said, Skiles butted heads with Tyson because Tyson came into camp woefully out of shape before 05-06 after not touching a basketball until late September (by his own admission).

    As far as the Wallace thing goes -- again, I miss Chandler on this team, but Wallace was a MUCH better player than Chandler was last season. Tyson rebounded more, but Wallace's touch with the ball made the Bulls a much better team. Tyson's turnover ratio was at 20 in 2005-06, so one in every five possessions he took up he turned into a turnover. That's amongst the worst in the league. The Bulls replaced that with one of the least-turnover prone centers in the game. Yes, he's an offensive zero, but so is Tyson. And, unlike Tyson, he won't hurt the offense. Tyson's mistakes did.

    Wallace has three years left on his deal, and he'll be making about as much as Tyson toward the end of the deal because Paxson front-loaded the contract. With Tyrus Thomas and Noah on board, I don't want to wait for Tyson to figure out how not to foul a guard 25 feet from the basket, or have the ball go off his hands after a pass. The Bulls weren't going to be under the cap anyway with or without Tyson, so Wallace's deal doesn't matter -- take it from a Bulls fan, I'm much happier filling Tyson's cap hold with a player of Wallace's caliber.

    (To say nothing of the respect Wallace gets from the refs)
     
  12. KellyDwyer

    KellyDwyer Member

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    He had his chance last year, and it didn't seem to hurt the team. Why will it stick this year? Remember, the Bulls were 3 and 9 after their first 12 games last year.
     
  13. xiki

    xiki Member

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    ...because time marches on and may very well catch up to Skiles (and his demons).

    BTW - KD...what's up with your career? Here's hoping that you have announced something (and I missed it) or will soon.
     

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