I think Paul Pierce is an underrated defender. I also KG presence is going to upgrade their defense significantly. He is the only person I have ever seen stop two superstars at once (Yao and Tmac). He absolutely wreaks havoc on the floor in a way that no other play in the league can. Now with that said, I just don't see 3 stars, a green PG who can't shoot and a collection of guys who would be 11th or 12th men (if they even make the roster) on other teams being enough to beat Chicago or Detroit. I do, however, feel they could beat Cleveland due to KG's ability to bother Lebron.
Since all the other teams are being thrown in, I think the Pistons will be worse than last year. Rasheed, Chauncey, McDyess will all be less effective because of age. Tayshaun's complete flop against the Cavs has me worried about him. Their combo at center of Webber/Nazr is substandard by anyone's definition. Who knows how long it will take for the Flip/Rasheed conflict to blow up. I also don't think much of Flip Saunders as their coach because he doesn't seem to mesh well with their veteran players, not just Rasheed. While I expect Rip to be in top form, this is clearly a team in decline. Detroit's peak under Flip was two years ago when they started out 33-4 (or whatever it was). It's been downhill since and I predict that will continue. The Cavs will be better even if they stand pat because LeBron, Varejao, Pavlovic and "Booby" should all improve. Maybe Larry Hughes will develop into a decent PG on offense (if they don't get Bibby) so that Gibson can play off the ball. On defense, they could switch assignments. Of course, Big Zero and Donyell Marshall will each have one foot in the grave. Who knows about Drew Gooden. IMO, he will never get any better than he showed last season. He is what he is. If the Cavs make a big trade, that could change everything. The Bulls and Heat might make significant moves before the season starts and I don't see how anyone can make a prediction on the Celtics with so much of their roster in question. I'll repeat again that Ray Allen is way overrated as a player, his shooting in particular. If their filler players are all pathetic the Celtics will not be a threat in the East. Right now, they are a Paul Pierce injury away from the lottery. They will long regret giving up Jeff Green for Ray Allen.
Cleveland is underrated. They are an excellent defensive and rebounding team AND have Lebron James. James and Wade are the most unstoppable players in the east. Right now, in playoff style BB against tough defenses, they are the best playmakers. But right now James has a lot more support while Mia is unathletic and old. If Boston can add a couple of pieces they have a shot. But I do think their PG spot and interior D after KG is too suspect at this point. Chicago has even greater problem, they really don't have a single guy who can consistently take over. They could try to win the way Detroit did a few years back, suffocating defense and always finding a couple of match-ups that work in their favor in the half court offense, but even then I don't see a guy as steady as Billips or a big as hard to match-up with as Sheed.
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Underrated in what sense? I'll say it again: Cleveland would have lost in the first round had they played Miami. The same Miami team that was playing at about 70% with the D-Wade injury. If they played Miami and lost in the first round we're not even having this discussion. LeBron should thank his lucky stars that NJ beat the Bulls late in the regular season dropping the Bulls down to the #5 seed and moving Cleveland the to the #2 seed. Sure, LeBron is the best player in the conference and is damn near impossible to guard. I'm not doubting his abilities as a player to change the game. My point is they are WAY too much of a one trick pony. They play decent defense but other than that they're all too one dimensional. Who else can create their own shot? Who else is capable of taking over a game? Any athletes? Illgauskas? Gooden? The Larry Hughes signing looks worse and worse the more he plays. This team just doesn't scare me....at all.
I think Cleveland would have tore apart the Miami that showed up for the playoffs. The Bulls exposed Miami's weaknesses. They killed them in boards, getting to lose balls, and took out Miami from getting any offensive rythum-- it would have been even worse against Cleveland because they are even stronger in those areas than Chicago. Cleveland did get a big break with the Washington draw. But they were clearly better than the Nets (who the Bulls couldn't beat to preserve their postion) and clearly better than the Pistons (who handled Chicago, who had dismantled the Heat), the Pistons not once in 6 games really managed to find real creases in Cleveland or really find a way to jump on them. Cleveland, after nearly missing out the 1st two games in Detroit--just really beat their asses after that. Also, Cleveland even held SA to 85 or less points 3 games. Lebron had a bad series so they didn't close out some games they should have won, but physically they matchup up with SA. Mainly they tighted up, and Lebron didn't sustain what he had been doing. Most successful playoff teams play great defense, good boards, and have a beast who can get you points in the half court when it all slows down. Now I don't see Cleveland having much of a chance to take out Phx, SA, Dallas or Houston (if we jell enough to beat those others)--but yes, right now, I think they are the East's best. Athletic, deep, physical, hits the boards, defends you, and has Lebron. Pretty good formula.
The Pistons played some of their best basketball of the season against the Bulls in the playoffs and never got it going against the Cavs. Just my opinion, but I think the Bulls would have beaten the Cavs had they met in the playoffs. I'll admit some of the Pistons problems were from the Cavs defense, but that doesn't fully explain what happened to Chauncey and Tayshaun. Had those two played like dogs against the Bulls, we would have had my pre-season picks of Bulls vs. Cavs in the ECFs. The way people are now viewing the Cavs, they are not overrated. Their pitiful performance in the Finals won them a lot of doubters. The lack of offseason moves has added more. They will be better than last season, especially if Mike Brown learned anything at all about coaching offense. As a young developing coach, he can't help but be better. If he isn't, they must dump him because he coaches offense like high school.
I just don't see how the Bulls could score against the Cavs. It wasn't just Tay and Chuancy having trouble scoring .Players like TD, Manu and Carter had trouble scoring. Parker was really the only guy for some reason to get off more than expected (thought his might have been because Hughes, who gave Chauncey trouble, was AWAL for the finals). So I think Bulls-Cavs would be plodding and a defensive affair. But when it all bogs down I can't see that the Bulls with a man with the size and quickness to slow Lebron from getting to the line or drawing doubles leading to good shots for teammates. Tay, Rip and Chauncy couldn't slow Lebron, who on Chicago could?
How do we compare two teams, one of which hasnt ever played a game. This is disrespectful to the BULLS that have beaten Miami in a playoff series! Bull Talent B. Gordon A. Nocioni K. Hinrich B. Wallace And a nice nice cast.... Cectics K. Garnett R. Allen P. Pierce And nothing else.....
Miami was outmatched in the playoffs against Chicago. Don't get me wrong on that one. I'm not trying to pull a conspiracy theory and suggest that Miami would have had a repeat title or anything if it wasn't for the seeding. Chicago simply was so much quicker, more athletic and more dynamic than the Heat. Chicago is unique because they don't have any one marquee player that averages 25 PPG, they just have a bunch of slashers and shooters that can leave you baffled at times. With Cleveland, it's a little different. Cleveland functions under the "Get the ball to the superstar and get the hell outta the way" mentality. I'm not a fan of that strategy especially whenever your supporting cast is comprised of nothing but marginal talent that can't create their own shots and makes way too much money. I couldn't disagree anymore that Cleveland is deep or athletic, as you have suggested. Aside from LeBron, who is the best athlete on the team? Drew Gooden? The same Drew Gooden thats so inconsisent and dumb that he can barely read the playbook? Their sixth man? Donyell Marshall? Detroit didn't play their best basketball against the Cavs. That's not to discredit what Cleveland did because while it was an impressive win that not many expected, I still think it's a bit of a farce to so willingly suggest Cleveland is hands down better than Detroit. I mean, how often is it that a team with 5/6 best players in the series loses? I give all the credit in the world to Cleveland making the NBA Finals. That's no easily accomplishment. I just don't think that they're all that special especially given the slightly revamped East now.
They are still lacking a go to guy. Neither a beast in the middle nor a Wade or Lebron to attack from the outside. Now maybe they are so much better all around they can overcome Lebron/Wade/KG/Billips, but I would not bet on them (except versus Mia, unless Mia does something drammatic to add athletes and firepower). I still think Cleveland is the team to beat. They have lots of guys who should keep getting better around one of the league's 5 best players. Baller, you may not see them as deep and athletic, but they chewed up every East offense they faced and killed people on the boards as well. Gooden, Verejo, Lebron, Hughes--those guys play defense and board. Even SA, a great offensive team, had a lot of trouble scoring, and that was without Hughes there (which really helped Parker). Also, they are young. Lebron, Verejo, Pavolic, & Gibson are only going to get better. Gooden and Hughes are in their prime. Z and Marshall are the only major players declining, but they have young guys in their spots. Cleve does probably need to trade for a true second fiddle scorer to threaten SA/PHX/Dal/HOU for the title, but they have Lebron and enough solid role players to repeat in the East. They should try to get someone like Mobley or S Jackson or Jason Terry, a confident multi-threat guy to give them the occasional scoring spark when Lebron needs a break (could offer pretty much offer Hughes, Gooden, Marshall, Pavolic, Snow or Jones +pick or some combination). They do that they are way ahead in the East.
I agree, even though they lack an inside scorer. The excuses are over now. They should have a good start to the season and contend for best record in the East. All of their players will be a year older, which is a good thing except for Big Ben. Skiles is on the hot seat. He knows the players; they know him. If he can't make it work, throw him out. I have a bad feeling the players will grow tired of him this coming season and the Bulls will struggle during stretches.
they have never played 1 game together. im not sold on how garnett will fair under the pressure of a market like boston either.
Don't sleep on Chicago just because they don't have a Kobe or Wade. Deng is 22-years-old and averaged 19 PPG this past season which is right on pace with the steady improvements that he's made each year. Gordon, despite what the pundits say about him, averaged over 21 PPG and shot well. Hinrich at almost 17 a game. Nocioni, 14 a game. Tyrus Thomas, Sefolosha and Noah all waiting in the wings. They're still a move or two away but outside of that they easily have the talent to take the East. If you want a deep and athletic Eastern Conference basketball team, Chicago is it. As for our discussion about Cleveland, I think it's a stretch to say that they "chewed up" anybody offensively considering they were lucky to score 80 points on any given night regardless of win or loss. What bothers me is the fact that Cleveland has done absolutely nothing this offseason. They haven't even re-signed their own free agents. You kind of get the feeling that Danny Ferry is sitting at his desk right now thinking, "Hmmm, well we made the NBA Finals. We must have a good thing going here. That's progress. You know what, i'm standing pat!". If that's the case there's a good chance he's going to end up with a monumental disappointment once the playoffs roll around. Don't forget that Orlando, a team with arguably a better roster from top to bottom, already had one of the best big's in the conference in Howard then went out and added Rashard's 20+ per game. Clearly, the Celtics have improved. Washington improves by default. Toronto, another team with arguably a better top to bottom roster, is only going to keep getting better. Hell, even the Knicks have improved. People may not want to give the East any credit for it, but the conference is at least getting better. That's not good news for one dimensional teams with marginal talent.
Current Boston Roster with more trades to come. This team can play with anyone and will definately be contending for Eastern Conference Champions. They could use another Center and probably a point guard like Rafer. NUM PLAYER POS HT WT DOB FROM YRS 20 Ray Allen G 6-5 205 07/20/1975 Connecticut 11 42 Tony Allen G 6-4 213 01/11/1982 Oklahoma State 3 11 Glen Davis ** F 6-9 289 01/01/1986 Louisiana State R 5 Kevin Garnett F 6-11 253 05/19/1976 Farragut Academy HS (IL) 12 50 Eddie House G 6-1 175 05/14/1978 Arizona State 7 41 Michael Olowokandi (FA) C 7-0 270 04/03/1975 U. of Pacific 9 43 Kendrick Perkins C 6-10 280 11/10/1984 Clifton J. Ozen HS (TX) 4 34 Paul Pierce F-G 6-6 230 10/13/1977 Kansas 9 66 Scot Pollard C-F 6-11 265 02/12/1975 Kansas 10 0 Leon Powe F 6-8 240 01/22/1984 California 1 13 Gabe Pruitt ** G 6-4 170 04/19/1986 USC R 9 Rajon Rondo G 6-1 171 02/22/1986 Kentucky 1 44 Brian Scalabrine F 6-9 235 03/18/1978 USC 6 8 Brandon Wallace
Any discussion of Bulls/C's needs to include coaches. Doc is a lower tier NBA head coach IMHO. He doesn't do in-game adjustments well. His game plans seem questionable, with or without talent from which to gameplan. Skiles can flat out coach. But, he suffers from George Karlitis. He always has teams seemingly ready to implode. He could undo that nice roster faster than anyone...east of Denver IMHO. As to talent, Bulls are deeper but - (isn't there always a 'but'?) with three great players the rest of C's roster 'only' has to accept roles, and perform within them. That starts with Rondo and includes Perkins, House, Scal, and TAllen.
Completely and utterly agree, but here's where Paxson comes in ... He's put together a roster that is so oblivious to his machinations, whether by choice or otherwise, that they seem to hold up to it. Wallace was the lone exception, but don't be surprised if he's wearing a headband when the Bulls tip off against New Jersey.
I think my point was they chewed up opposing offenses. Even SA had trouble scoring against them. Cleveland was I believe #1 in defensive efficiency in the playoffs, #2 in rebouding (though probably the best because Utah was inflated by the Warriors ineptitude on the glass). Cleveland's issue is their offense. But with some many young players and particularly Lebron, they should get better with experience. I think if Chicago and Cleveland played in the playoffs both would have a lot of scoring troubles. But it comes down to manufactoring points against tough stretches against great defenses, I'll take Lebron making plays and breaking down a defense over Gordon or Deng. Now Boston has glaring flaws at PG and C relative to other elites. I could see Chicago taking advantage of that. But there is no easy way to get points on Cleve (if Chauncey, Carter and Manu had loads of trouble, who does Chi turn to?), and it is really hard to contain Lebron. I still think Cleve need's a second tier scorer to threaten for the title, but I see no reason they should not be favorites in the East assuming they keep their team intact. They represented the East last year because they were the best team, they showed it clearly in the Det series where Det lost the last 4 and was lucky to win the 1st two on their home court.
