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Are Championships the Only Thing that Defines Greatness?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by rocketsjudoka, Apr 18, 2014.

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Are Championships the only thing that defines greatness?

  1. Yes, no one can be truly great without winning a championship.

    7 vote(s)
    17.1%
  2. No, greatness isn't dependent on winning championships

    34 vote(s)
    82.9%
  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    In the Rick Adelman threads it has frequently been brought up by many posters that Adelman isn't a great coach because he has never won a Championship. Given how hard it is to win any championship at the elite level of any sport then should we only judge greatness based upon championships?

    Is Charles Barkley not great because he never won one? In football are Dan Marino and Earl Cambell not great because they never won a Superbowl or in baseball is Ernie Banks, Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio not great either since they never won a World Series? For that matter is Nolan Ryan not that great because he only played on one WS Championship team as a reliever in 1969?
     
  2. UtilityPlayer

    UtilityPlayer Member

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    Well winning in playoffs separate tiers of greatness. For eg: P Manning has only 1 SB . But he is in the legendary status. Stockton and Malone , Suns with Nash (2-3 years) ,Garnett is l
     
  3. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    It's not the only thing that defines greatness, but in the minds of many people, it's the first and last thing to bring up when comparing players / coaches / teams.
     
  4. UtilityPlayer

    UtilityPlayer Member

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    Continuation..... Garnett , Pierce and Allen took their HOF status to another realm. But it is important to perform great on the PO. But basketball , football and baseball are TEAM sports.
     
  5. dandorotik

    dandorotik Contributing Member

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    Well, I think in the other thread, some of us were merely saying that you can't rank Adelman as the greatest coach in Rockets history over 1 that led us to 2 championships and 2 others that led us to Finals appearances.

    But I agree- it's more so a deal in basketball. You very rarely hear people say things like "Ernie Banks was one of the all-time greats, but..." or "Barry Sanders was.... but..." It's really gotten carried away in basketball, to the point where you have people rating Robert Horry as a better basketball player than Karl Malone- utterly ridiculous. I will say that it can give them a slight edge over others, but certainly should not take away from a great career.
     
  6. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Team sport

    Adelman had some good teams, but you can never say he had the best team talent-wise.

    Unlike, say, Phil Jackson, who probably had the best team and best player about 11 times.
     
  7. dandorotik

    dandorotik Contributing Member

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    Yes, and especially basketball, and it's silly. I mean, you have people saying LeBron James' legacy might be tarnished if he only has 2 rings- it's just absurd. And pathetic how the media tries to inflate its own self-importance by constantly harping on it. Most fans, including most on here, are smarter than the media, anyway.
     
  8. legend215

    legend215 Contributing Member

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    Just a thought but you have to remember that Barkley, Malone and Stockton, Ewing, Miller and a slew of other great players had their championship dreams smashed by one player..... Michael Jeffrey Jordan....That being said, I don't think you can hold that against them as far as their greatness is concerned
     
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I agree with you in Rockets' history Rudy T is the greatest coach. Winning the two championships is the highpoint of Rockets' history. That shouldn't diminish what Adelman has done over his career.

    I'm seeing a lot of posters rating Adelman as not great and/or overrated over the fact that he hasn't won a championship. That ignores looking at his career in a totality, the high praise that he has gotten from many players and coaches, and also the circumstances around why Adelman teams weren't able to win.

    I agree too. I think one of the reasons behind many problems in basketball is the idea that it is championship or bust. While yes we all want to win and every player that aspires to greatness should want to hoist a championship but in many ways that has poisoned the relationship between the players, organization, and fans. One reason why players like Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell were admired was that they stuck it out with Stros their whole career. That is getting very rare now especially in basketball. Good players who have enough talent to determine where they want to go are more concerned about their own legacies than what sort of relationship they have with fans. Lebron is the poster child for that. He grew up in Ohio, had a decent team in Cleveland was considered one of the NBA's best players yet was still winning to bolt, and make a big show of it, just because he saw the fastest route to a championship was with Wade and Bosh.
     
  10. Awesome

    Awesome Member

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    No but in this generation of what have you done for me lately, people would have you think there is just great and everything else which is nothing at all.
     
  11. Roc Paint

    Roc Paint Contributing Member

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    Obviously, if you want to be a champion you have to win a championship.
     
  12. CDrex

    CDrex Contributing Member

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    No. But that's not a real argument anyone makes. No one's out there claiming Darko Milicic had a better career than Charles Barkley.

    When comparing like to like though in terms of roles and regular season impact (say, Tim Duncan to Karl Malone, or Kobe Bryant to Allen Iverson) it's a perfectly valid criteria for making a decision between the two.
     
  13. VBG

    VBG Member

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    I think you have to look at the context.

    An NFL QB and an NBA superstar have a huge impact on the team. They have more relative ability to lead their team to a championship. So they should be held more accountable if they're never able to get over the hump. This is what separates Hakeem from David Robinson.

    If you're an NFL RB or a baseball player though, no matter how good you are you can't really win a ring by yourself.

    I think coaches are in the same place as a baseball player or RB.
     
  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Except you are seeing several posters bring up that Adelman is overrated for never winning a championship. For that matter this isn't just an issue with Adelman and has haunted Houston Sports. Besides the Comets' success and Oilers' AFL championship before the Superbowl, Houston sports have only won two major championships. Are we going to say that outside of the 1994-1995 Rockets Houston has never had sports greatness?
     
  15. GoRox2013

    GoRox2013 Member

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    Well everyone considers Morey great on here, how many championship does he have?
     
  16. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Ring counting is by far the most overrated standard to measure greatness in a TEAM sport.
     
  17. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    How does player win a championship, if they are plagued with terrible team management and roster transactions?
     
  18. Roc Paint

    Roc Paint Contributing Member

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    Tell that to the players that are ringless.
     
  19. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    Nothing is the only thing that defines greatness.
     
  20. awc713

    awc713 Member

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    As far as TEAM greatness, sure.

    But individual success? No.

    Basketball is too much of a team game to predicate all success on championships. Some other the greatest players EVER never won championships.

    Same goes with baseball and football...too much of a team effort to judge individuals on this standard.

    Tennis, swimming, wrestling, etc. is a different story, though.
     

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