[APBRMetrics Board] Scary +/- stat regarding our guards

Maybe in spurts he isn't a bad defender, but over the course of multiple seasons with the Celtics the numbers don't lie. What that does tell us though is that you can still be an outstanding defensive team with one weak link in your starting lineup. Now two on the other hand....

 

Let me fix that for you.

Our defense hasnt exactly been nails with Lowry starting.

 

Allen is a very good defender, everyone knows this. However, over the last 5 years, 90% of his time on the court without the new Celtics lineup has been when he was with Seattle and he *wasn't* a good defender.

If you read the author's Pistons example you would see that Allen's sample size with the Celtics "without the starters" is way too small to be accurate.

 

The stats geeks strike again. I think we realize that the Rockets can compete for 3 1/2 quarters, it's the 4th Qtr when we need a stop or big bucke that things go down the tube. In addition, we have 1 player that can play D out of AB, Martin, Shane, Scola, and Yao. That's Shane and he's decent. We have only 1 rebounder and that's Scola and he sometimes isn't athletic enough to get the rebound.

 

Nerds !




DD

 

I used to think parker and manu were bad defenders and our starting combo could be as good as them!

 

Well, the celtics have a roster loaded with exceptional defenders in addition to a good defensive concept. Rondo, KG, and Perkins type defenders are more rare than some may believe.

The celts probably wouldn't have that championship (with Allen on the court) without those elite defenders. And, I would still say Allen is a considerably better defender than both of our starting guards.

 

They are, but they have Tim Duncan at the rim, we have Chuck Hayes and Luis Scola...oh, and Brad Miller....

Might as well have Mugsey Bogues at the rim.

DD

 

This list does not suprise me. And there's no reason to think that Yao will make a whole lot of difference now when he can't even stay on the court. This team needs a defensive make over. Our best offensive players are very bad defenders and it will be hard to put a good defensive team on the floor to make up the deficiencies. So Les wanted an offensive juggernaut, but at the expense for our defense seems to be the direction they wanted to go. Adelman teams besides his Blazers were always to short, unathletic, injured or too old. So with Martin and Brooks in the back court and Scola inside will give up a lot of points.

 

Manu Ginobili is one of the best wing defenders in this generation of players...

 

What? He is captain reach and peek......I mean seriously....why do you think Pop gets so frustrated with him?

I love Manu but he is hardly a good defender....

DD

 

DeShawn Stevenson is at the bottom of the list but he is an excellent defender. I'm not sure how accurate this list is.

 

This explains why the team was so horrific with Martin and Brooks starting together.

 

Brooks/Martin/Scola three of our best scorers who can't defend and give up to many buckets in the paint. Teams are just killing our interior defense. This is because Brooks/Martin is not good post/perimeter defenders AND Scola is no DHoward.

 

And you know you play lousy defense if Battier is the team leading shot blocker.

 

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28ozphl

 

The list you posted is great, but it's what just about everybody has already been saying : our backcourt (Brooks + Martin) can score 20-25, but they'll give up 25-30. It's really a horrible defensive backcourt.

Yao's best defense is merely his presence. People always point to his inability to block shots and his sluggishness, but there is no accounting how many opposing players minds he's changed simply by being there. Players who wanted to blow by our perimeter defenses. Yao isn't very mobile now. With this backcourt, and if he comes back and isn't moving like he used to, my bet is Yao is in foul trouble a lot trying to stop players trying to penetrate or trying to help defend the baseline.

 

Seriously go figure out what adjusted +/- is before dismissing it. What you're arguing for is almost exactly what it is. Adjusted +/- uses regression to adjust for the fact that players play with and against different levels of talent. This is the "adjusted" factor.

 

This is the methodology I think people who dismiss statistical analysis ignore (knowingly or unknowingly). If you find a statistic like this, you then try to prove or disprove it by askiing yourself if this is what you're actually seeing in the game from watching it (and hell yes, it's what you're seeing). Morey doesn't rely solely on stats or just watching a game - he uses one to prove or disprove the other.