Here let me do something, who was better this year? Dwight Howard or Dwyane Wade? Dwyane Wade right? He led the league in scoring and lost in the 1st round. You could say Duncan(21.3) was averaging the same ppg as DH12(20.6) and a little less in rebounds. Half the time McGrady would outscore his team in the 1st half, basketball is a team sport. Duncan and Shaq are both better players than Tmac and that is pretty apparent BUT NOT THAT YEAR INDIVIDUALLY.
Dwyane Wade was better.....but the point is Tim Duncan managed to win the championship, he didn't managed to lead his team to the Finals only to cough it up and he didn't struggle in the 2nd round against the former Champs either unlike Dwight Howard. The Admiral in his final season on his last legs. Manu a rookie who came off the bench and did very little. Malik Rose getting major minutes, along with Stephen Jackson when he was a nobody. Tony Parker a second year PG with deer in the headlights syndrome in the playoffs. Duncan led that crew to a title. He led them past the 3 peat Lakers, going for 37 and 16 on the Lakers own home court to finish them off. He then almost had a quadruple double in the last game of the finals, going for 21, 20, 10 dimes and 8 blocks. Meanwhile, the guy he was guarding, K-Mart, went 3-19 for 6 points. It doesn't get much more dominating than that, I don't recall Tracy ever dominating like that ever. This debate isn't even close. But Somehow a player just wins a scoring title is better? Sorry, My logic doesn't work that way.
so who's better? chris paul or dwight howard? chris paul was terrible in the first round. and yet most still put him as the 4th best player in this league
You didn't refute any of my points about the bad Rockets teams that T-Mac led. You just ignored them. In 02-03 he single handedly almost beat the Pistons. He's led 3 mediocre Rockets' teams to the playoffs and 50 wins. Yeah. 06-07 T-Mac wasn't up to par. 25.3 ppg 7.3 apg 5.9 RBG. Yeah. 07-08 we had no one apart from T-Mac who even start on a championship team. Only 27 ppg, 6.8 apg, 8.2 rpg and a decent .425 shooting percentage.
Almost....You are going to give him credit FOR ALMOST beating somebody. Sorry but a Fail is a Fail and a win is a win. He failed, therefor he failed. If you are going to say something like that. I'm going to say Dominique was better than Bird in 88 because he ALMOST beat the Celtics in Game 7, but he failed. But Hey, he almost beat them. Chris Paul, but I'm not going to list you reasons because I already debunked your reasonings for thinking Tracy was Top 5 in 05 and you just ignored it. Therefor I will react the same.
I think the question is does McGrady believe he can help this team? With the expection of the rookies and Anderson, the rest of the team made it to the 2nd while McGrady was in "street clothes", he's going to want to prove that he can make it pass the 1st round. I'll admit some of the things he did last season, I didn't agree with ( telling ESPN about his surgery & the Lakers going to win it all comment), but if he can come back moviated & willing to help the team, and be a team player, I'm all for it, I like to think I'm a Rockets fan 1st, player fan 2nd.
No he did not fail. Teams win and lose games, not single players. Team accomplishments should not be factored in. You are riding that argument and it is foolish.
No, It's more like this.... Players win but Teams lose. When a Star player wins, They will get all the credit and he will always be listed as the 1st reason for why they win. They will never bring up their teammates they will just respect how great they are......When a Star player loses, They will get none of the blame by their fan-boys and they'll constantly blame their teammates saying they are scrubs, they choked, the star couldn't do much more, etc..... Its a hilarious double standard.
he won't be the player that he was with orlando, he's lost some athletism due to age, but he still can be an effective playmaker a la jason kidd, but no... he'll never average 25 ppg.
I love the way you don't refute any point I make. You just say he lost so he sucks. You won't admit how well he has played in the past and especially in the playoffs even though the rest of his team was terrible. Are you trying to say that anyone on that Pistons team was better than T-Mac? Especially T-Mac in 02-03?
He would not be the same player he was in Orlando but with the limited offense options of the team, a 25 ppg is a big possibility.
I dont know what you are watching. The first thing out of Lebron, Yao, Duncan, Kobe or whoever is always "it was a great team effort". McGrady is one of the few who actually took the blame for a loss. You seem to be the only one promoting a double standard.
I don't believe in Tracy McGrady, BUT I do believe in his desire for another max contract. From some new pictures going around it appears he may have lost a lot of weight, my question to him would be why he didn't try to do this in the past few off seasons...I know he never had knee issues before, but he's had other things that have kept him down...he's a fraud in my opinion.
The "his team mates sucked" excuse is kind of silly. We are only talking about getting to the second round. Lebron and Iverson made it to the finals with teams comparable or worse in talent to most of Tracy's. That doesn't mean it's Tracy's fault that he hasn't reached the 2nd round per se... It just means that Tmac as the best player on a team has never been enough, and with that being the case is he really a perrenial elite or just an all star? As I brought up in a similar thread, if you took a hall of famer like Hakeem, Barkley, Lebron, Micheal Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson or Shaq and put them in Tracy's place with the same team mates there is no way they go 12 years without making it out of the first round. So I don't believe his teams have been so bad that NO ONE could have won a series in his situation like some of you seem to imply. I am sure if Tmac was completely healthy and joined the Lakers or Cavs or some other top contender as the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team he would make it out of the first round, and maybe even win a title. When healthy he is unquestionably a perrenial all star. I even think there were a few years in the middle of his career where he was an elite player, when both his scoring average and his shooting % were higher than they have been in quite a while. I think he is several years removed from that level now. The main concern for me though is definitely Tracy's health more so than his talent. Even if he does come back healthy, how long will it last? He has a history of back problems to go with the surguries on his shoulder and knee from this off season. He has never played a full season in his career. To think he is going to come back healthier than he has in more than 5 years and stay healthy all season seems like very wish full thinking.
He failed....and he failed. LeBron James took a garbage team similar to Tracy McGrady's to the Finals. Rick Barry won a championship in 1975 by himself. Either those two players are just on another planet than Tracy McGrady, or Tracy McGrady just isn't that good. I roll with the 2nd option. Winner..............Props to you.
