Something like 15 of the 19 hijackers got into this country when they shouldn't have. The INS violated their own rules with a lackadaisical approach. And certainly the terrorist-type is exactly the type of person who would have turned himself in during one of these voluntary registration sessions.
This is my favorite out of all your posts. Actually I couldn't agree more. I think Ashcroft is an embarrassment to the administration, the Party and the human race at large.
What I am about to say will likely be EXTREMELY unpopular. I really do think the time has come to crack down on illegal immigration. We have the most lax border enforcement ANYWHERE ON THE GLOBE. The Israelis have told us that it could be our undoing and I believe that true as well. We must deport illegals en masse. Anytime an illegal signs up for government services...BAM...back home. Anytime an illegal registers their kid for school...BAM...back home. Etc...etc...etc...ad infinitum. On the other hand, those who immigrate legally should be given the full protection of the law. They should NEVER be detained without charges any longer than anybody else would be. They should be given a speedy trial once charges are filed. If people are going to be here with the consent of the nation...then we must treat them as PART of the nation. Nothing could be so simple or make more sense.
Most economists I have heard talk about this issue agree that there will be initial effects on the economy for this reason, but such effects will be short lived. I would propose that welfare,etc be conditioned upon the recipient actively searching for work. I realize that most of these jobs will not make up for the loss of benefits. I would be MUCH more willing to have the government supplement what they make in one of these jobs than have them not working and pay their entire existence. Therefore you have point one...less government expenditure in the form of benefits and entitlements. Not to mention that most people have an increased sense of self-worth when they are working hard to make their way. Keep in mind also that MANY..not ALL...but MANY illegals send a large chunk of the money they make here back to their relatives in their country of origin. Therefore these dollars are not pumped back into the US economy. Thus point two...more money pumped in for the growth of the US economy. I could make many more points, but I don't want to have a post 3 pages long. Suffice it to say that I believe it would be bad for the economy in the short term...but VERY beneficial in the long term.
Timing, that was brilliant. Ashcroft scares the crap outta me. Personally, I am willing to live with a certain degree of risk if it means I can keep my personal freedoms. Its what I love about this country. I dont want the US to become Singapore. Hey nice place, very safe and clean, but watch what you say or do....
Refman, You know what? I don't really disagree with your "EXTREMELY unpopular" statement, nor do I feel many Americans do. Furthermore, I don't really think that's the issue here. IMHO, the quote from this article describes what the problem really is: In otherwords, Rumsfeld and Cheney have traditionally heald the position that the present shouldn't be accountable to the degree that they should have to tell the truth and be accountable. Think about that: Imediately after Nixon was caught violating the law and then seeking to obfuscate behind the office of the president, Rumsfeld and Cheney clearly defended the position that the president should have the right to be beyond public scruitiny. In other words, Rumsfeld would have a world in which the president could do whatever unethical thing he wished, and yet hide it from the American public. In Rumsfeld's world, the predident would have the power to detain whomever he declares "enemy combatants" for however long he feels is appropriate without any accountability. He wants a world in which he can do whatever he feels is in the public intrest without having to answer to people's rights. In his world, if he declares someone a terrorist then, dammit, we all should accept his word for it and rally behind the flag! In other words, Rumsfeld has absolutely no understanding for the tenants that make our country great. He doesn't understand the Bill of Rights, and he doesn't understand the fact that the rights of the individual superscede the rights of the state, and the concept of "Innocent until proven guilty", etc. Rumsffeld and Cheney, had they been born in the Soviet Union would have just as easily grown into the role of hardline Kremlin Communists. They simply don't understand the concept that it is right that any individual's power should be limited, and the essence of our democracy is "the will of the people", for better or for worse.
I would like to nominate John Ashcroft for the first-ever "Atticus Finch Award." The recepient of this award is honored for doing the unpopular and dangerous work that must be done for the greater good. Nominees should display a disparagement of character from any number of critics. Naturally they should be accused of exceeding their bounds of power all-the-while their critics are forgetful of the awesome and important responsibility they hold.
No amount of admiration will change the fact the Mr. Ashcroft's actions are Constitutionally suspect.
I doubt that you'd sacrifice a cheeseburger if your country asked you to. Unless you are middle eastern, you have not been inconvinienced at all. Except maybe at the airport if you were randomly picked to be screened. I'm guessing you would be one to say that random screening is stupid and that we should use racial profiling. Seriously though, if Bush were forced to raise taxes (sounds familiar) to fund the war on terror, would you be for it? Not really. I agree with you Ref, usually I stick up for illegals from Mexico because I think they come here to work and live a better life, not sap up welfare and other benefits. I mean, to come into the country legally requires money and going through the proper channels. If you are so desperate to find work in the USA, you probably don't have the money or the job to make the money needed to do that. I think you see where I'm going with this, so I won't explain any more. Anyways, yeah, times are rough and we need to prevent terrorist from getting in. I don't like the idea of troops on the borders though, it just doesn't seem like this would be america if we had to defend our borders, the ones we share with our friends Mexico and Canada. Also, I fear the troops would equal the shooting of illegals who won't give up on trying to get in here. This reminds me of a sketch from the short lived comedy show on Fox, Culture Clash. Anyways, in this sketch, the US uses a giant version of The Club to lock the border. The entire sketch was like a commercial i think, but instead of showing you how car thieves couldn't break or pick the lock of the club, it showed mexicans trying to climb over, crawl under, and finally, trying to go straight through the club. Great show, too bad it didn't last.
Going through the proper channels is a good thing. Other than the nominal sum it costs to process a visa...entry legally should not cost at all. We'll have to work on that one. Unfortunately that is the reality of living in the world we inhabit. It disappoints me too...but 9/11 showed us that we must control who comes in and out of here. I understand your trepidation. There would have to be rigid rules for conduct...and any violations should result in immediate court martial. The military is the best group to get the job done. They tend to be much more thorough in the completion of tasks. It is painfully obvious that a separate border patrol does not work.
The INS is underfunded yet overbloated. The border patrol is also underfunded. Tightening our borders to restrict illegal immigration has been unpopular politically. This move is ****ed up, and the people held up on immigration charges last year are still there. I'm pretty sure if these immigrants were illegal, the news would highlight it for more patriotism points. The ambiguity coming from the Justice Department dispells no less the gross violations of human rights. Illegal immigrants do not get mail to reregister. Most were in the legal grey area where their visas had expired (some were deliberately held back), but by no means should they be cuffed and held without trial. This is a break to all the civil liberties we have been priveledged of for more than a 100 years... and legal immigrants deserve less? We're not talking about tax breaks or benefits here, we're talking about the treatment of human beings. Convicted criminals have more rights than they do. It's a fact that a number of terrorists in 9/11 had been tracked by the FBI long before it happened. What's with the increased response in paranoia and the decreased actions for accountability? Is this something to apease the American public for the gross incompetence of our intelligence agencies? Similar or not Korematsu v. US still stands. It is a precedent for bigotry. Congress may have "apologized" to the Japanese Americans with guilt money, but the Executive branch still holds the power to detain racial groups at any time. What does "any time" mean? When the "need for action was great, and time was short?" How long is this War on Terror going to last? Who have we declared war on? Africans, Arabs and Persians? Why not just flat out say it and confirm what the whole Middle East is thinking?? Ashcroft is not going to stop here. The vigil for terrorism is not going to be confined to immigrants. With Korematsu he does not need additional legislation to carry this out upon American citizens. So at the end of the day, I wonder what have I "sacrificed" as an American? The need to protect human rights? The inclination to help other races from being persecuted? If sacrifice is a euphamism for compliance, then I have lost all that I was taught to be proud of. And I can't imagine how much our "special interest" citizens who have lost even more.
Yes, we are punching the envelope here, but so are the terrorists. I don't get all the suspicion about Ashcroft's or the Administration's motives. They have been put in a here-to-fore unseen predicament, thus my retort to another poster about dirty nuclear bombs.
that they have paid into the system, mind you. Did you even read the thread you referenced? In its first year, the agreement is projected to trigger 37,000 new claims from Mexicans who worked in the United States legally and paid Social Security taxes but have been unable to claim their checks, according to a memo prepared by Ted Girdner, the Social Security Administration's assistant associate commissioner for international operations.
I think if you looked into this issue more closely that you would quickly change your opinion. The benefit to the US economy from the Mexican illegal aliens far out ways the negatives.
