I don't think I had shouted FIRE JVG until last night. But the sade thing is we cannot find a better coach now. Even if there is one out there, bringing him in will most likely ruin this season.
Basketball is supposed to be entertainment. People enjoy the athleticism and people enjoy winning. JVG, and to some extent all modern basketball, has taken a lot of the athleticism out of the game, the running, passing and shooting. People will tolerate that as long as thier team is winning. But dull basketball and losing basketball has no entertianment value. I'd almost rather watch a run and gun team that loses over a walk it up team that wins. I'd love to see T-mac given free reigns to run but we have no one else in the other 11 players that could run with him. What's Nolan Richardson doing these days?
I agree with a lot of what you said. I'd just like to address a few things... I agree in principal but this is unrealistic in practice. Yao is not going to average more than probably 35 or 36 minutes per game. Right now, he is at 32 partly because of foul trouble in a couple of games. T-Mac, hopefully, is not going to play more than 40 minutes per game. Even the league leaders don't play more than 42. My math isn't great, but it would appear that, in that best-case scenario, T-Mac is on the floor without Yao for at least 12 minutes and Yao is on the floor without T-Mac for at least 8 minutes. That means that they are on the floor together only 20 minutes per game - well under HALF the game. And that's assuming that both Yao and T-Mac play their full compliment of minutes and don't get into foul trouble. IMO, to win a lot, you need your main guys on the floor together at least half the time. That means you have to rely on your bench in spurts and your bench has to perform. Our bench just isn't doing that. In this instance, I'll disagree. There is more to running post up than just getting position and throwing it in there. Now, I'll admit that I wish they would do this a little less than they do it. I wish about a third of the time they would just get Yao down there and give him the ball. But, it is tough to establish good position. Yao has shown that IF HE IS IN THE RIGHT POSITION, he is nearly unstoppable. But, push him out of position and he struggles. Until he is able to overpower guys and impose his will on the block, they will have to continue to run up screens and back screens to free him up as well as running him across the lane. I partially agree with this. Fronting is very difficult to deal with for any team. Teams that are successful against fronting defenses either have post players that can turn and face the basket, have post players that can force their way in front of the defender or have really good passing games. Guys like Garnett and Duncan face fronting a lot but they overcome it by facing the basket. Yao does not have that skill. Shaq simply imposes his will in the block but Yao isn't strong enough or agressive enough for that yet. And teams like Sacrament make you pay for fronting and overplaying by hitting players back door, but you can only do that if you have great passers and great chemistry, which we do not. No question that the coach needs to put his players in position to win. One of the more frustrating things for me is watching the team try to force their offense even when the fronting defense is smothering the play they are attempting. It is at those times that I wish T-Mac would just wave guys off and go to the basket or that they would wave off the play and move on, but they seem stubbornly fixated on running that play and that is on the coach. I think they need to put their best players on the floor to start the game for a reason. This is a slow starting team and that cannot continue. It is on Mo to stay out of foul trouble. And Mo is the best post feeder on the team so you want him out there with Yao as much as possible. The problem is that this team lacks a guy who can create shots for himself and other players outside of McGrady. That is what made Cuttino Mobley so valuable despite the fact that he could be horrifically frustrating at times. He was a guy that could get to the basket or get a good shot for himself or a teammate when Steve and Yao were on the bench. That is a role that has always been suited to a guard, NOT a power forward. Power forwards need the ball given to them (unless their names are Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan). They don't handle the ball so plays have to be run for them. Guards don't have that issue. Also, power forwards are easier to double team because of their general lack of ball handling skills and where they like to operate (on the block). Guards, again, don't have that issue. That is something we are seriously lacking right now and Mo isn't that answer. I couldn't agree with this more. I have never liked his approach to this. I really hate it when he'll call two almost back to back when the team doesn't run what he wants them to run. Clock management is a serious issue for JVG.
Van Gundy was the right coach (temporarily) for the undisciplined, poor defensive team that he took over before last season. This team has more veterans, and is more mature. I don't think Van Gundy has a clue how to get the offense going. I've always thought he was a much better assistant coach, simply because he focuses too much on defense. His offense is the way it is (slow and unproductive) because he wants to be able to get the defense set.
My Thoughts (gripes) I agree with alot of the posts here.. were just summing up what everyone else is thinking. about the points. 1. I agree TMac or Yao should always be on the floor unless its 1 or 2 minutes left at the end of quarters 1 - 3. No one else on this team can get their own shot except for MoT who starts. 2. I would actually like to see Yao shake it up a lil.. high post / low post / flash in the middle.. If Yao has to battle in the low post all game it will wear him out quickly. 3. I've seen Yao face up some players and drive to the basket. I think he should look into doing that more often. Yao has a great shot within 15 feet we should utiliize him in dfferent ways. 4. I whole heartedly agree.. I would like bring MoT off the bench to eat up the other teams second unit. I would start JHoward not because of merit but because he is horrible off the bench. Yao / Tmac / MoT are our top three scoring options (high %) for some reason MoT is not really producing as a starter. 5. Again totally agree about the clock management. JVG takes TO's like they grow on trees and at the most unopportunistic times.. such as we are on a nice run and he will call a Timeout to make a sub. I think WHY? Why? WhY? His substitution patterns are horrible I dont know what he's thinking.. what I would like to add.. JVG pretty handpicked this team.. he brought us CWard (past his prime) , CSpoon (past his prime) , Mutombo (past this prime) come on if you bring in vets bring in people who can still play.. JJackson is looking a step slower this season the age of our team seems to be showing and im starting to worry. Adjustments I would like to see. - Fast Break ? let our guys run the fast break and get some easy points and let Yao rest on the other end. Tmac/ JJ / Boki / MoT these guys can get out and run a break. why not utilize it? hell let all the little guys try to run it down there throat every time. - Boki is a fouling machine I think thats a byproduct of him trying to hard but so is MoT and Jhoward. I would like to see Boki play more minutes he is definately our best three pt shooter (so far) and decent size. - I think our defense is overrated (last night they said we are the best defense in the league) whatever .. we hold opponents down because they have less opportunities to score. its an illusion. I would think Opp FG% would be a better barometer and dont get me wrong were still decent but overrated in D. - We need a Leader / PG in the worst way.. someone who can see the floor well, get people the ball and shoot the three. I mentioned in a different thread BSura is not the answer he is a backup 2 being forced to play the 1. He will be a much better defender and rebounder than Ward but if you think Ward sucks at shooting the 3 wait till you see BSura try it. J
one more thing.. we shoot way too many three's and im actually tired of that too. Why dont we step up and take an easier 2 than step back and miss a 3. *im looking at you CWard. we live and die by the 3pt shot and I can understand the thinking because they get so many wide open looks at it but the 2 is much more high percentage. J
As Jeff pointed out, there will be some times when they are both sitting, but it should be kept to a minimum. I think the REAL problem is created when Yao, TMac, and Mo are all sitting, as they are the only three players who can create their own shot or carry the team offensively for any length of time. Since Mo was in foul trouble last night, JVG should have kept TMac in the game early in the 4th quarter until Yao and/or Mo could return. It was a fairly huge and easy to predict catastrophe when they all were sitting.
Thank you. We brought in JVG to give some discipline to the guards and to play defense. But this is a new team that doesn't need this discipline or strict defense. This is a team that needs to score points, attack teams, and play basketball without a coach breathing down their necks about defense.
Interesting thread. Some good points here. I have to say, I am willing to preach patience, but some of the things I have seen recently make me really question JVG. I am willing to be patient with chemistry issues and things like that. But I dont see chemistry issues as the big problem right now. I see our gameplan as a problem. I see our lack of good role players as a problem. And I see our coach not adapting to the talent available on the team as well as he should. And all of that falls on JVG, not chemistry issues or anything like that. For that reason I AM starting to waver a bit on JVG. The way the team is playing now they are not going to make the playoffs. To me that spells doom for JVG.
Welcome to the dark side Deuce. But I agree. Chemistry has nothing to do with losing to the Hawks/Knicks. JVG expects players to play his system. We need someone that will play a system that suits his players, not the other way around. I think we all know JVG isn't going to change his approach the game, which is fine, but not for this team. I don't hate JVG, I just don't think he is the right coach for this team.
I was thinking that after getting a good pg in the middle of the season who could run the floor better, JVG would start running the ball more. But then i remember the backcourt we had last year. No one can doubt the skills Steve has in a faster paced game after watching the Magic. But i dont want to say get rid of JVG just yet. But if he still runs this horrible offense after we get a good pg. Then i want him gone.
I'll have to disagree with you a bit Jeff on this point you made. If you want to say that Yao averages probably roughly 35 to 36 minutes a game that's fine, but looking at the box score, he only had 33 minutes yesterday and he wasn't in foul trouble. By your statement then, Yao could've been inserted into the game to stop the bleeding. But that's besides the point. I don't believe, think or endorse that there should be such a strict scheduling of minutes to the players, otherwise what would occur during overtime? Simply put, I believe that JVG mis-managed the time table of his players and he didn't use his timeouts effectively at all. Even if he wanted to stick with that B linuep at the start of the Fourth, he SHOULD'VE called a timeout after Hardaway's 1st 3-pointer. Is this JVG's method in toughening his crew? I don't know, but it would've made more sense to either call a timeout, or be more flexible and adaptable to what the Knicks where throwing at us at the beginning of the fourth quarter.
What defense? Over the last two games, I defense disappeared when it really counted. Last year, we could've at least relied on the defense eventhough our offense was shaky. But this year, our defensive intensity just doesn't seem to be there anymore. How many open looks did Kurt Thomas have last nite?
Why do I get the feeling the Rockets have been turned into a New York Knicks and NBA retirement home?
Great post, m_cable, absolutely spot on. Yes, I hate JVG and his horrendous offensive scheme, and the fact that this "Defensive guru" was only a modest upgrade (at best) from Rudy's system...but this guy just cannot coach. For the life of me I cannot understand why he does some of the things he does. The TMac and Yao sitting out issue: once they start making a run...don't you put them back in to quelch it, or call a timeout? He knows the makeup of this team; we really can't make a furious comeback because our offensive firepower is just not that imporessive. It's Yao (who isn't quite dominant yet) and TMac (who they can double and triple team until the role players show they can shoot...and living and dying by the 3pter, we've shown that we aren't a great shooting team either). It's frustrating being able to see one game out of every 4 here in Austin, and I can't believe that was the game I saw. One of the most horribly coached choke jobs at the end, I must say. On a side note, there's been a lot of blame on past personnel on not getting up for the games against the weak teams. What is the reason now? We've just blown back to back leads against such offensive threats as the ATLANTA HAWKS and the NEW YORK KNICKS. Right now...we should be at the bottom of the EASTERN conference.... BTW, another sidenote: Me and my friends watching it knew it was going to be Jamal for the 3. After he banked it in, my friend made a comparison to the 97 WCF when Stockton hit that 3: TMac/Clyde took the shot WAY too early; a dagger 3 to close it (although I thought Stockton's shot came from the left wings). Although it wasn't as heartbreaking, it was still a good comparison nonetheless.
HA! I wish there wasnt a dark side. But my confidence is a little shaken at this point. I guess time will tell.
This is so tiring... We are just getting exposed to the personnel around Yao and TMac. There is not that much wrong with our system or Yao or TMac, just look at the play of the rest of the team. Does anyone think C Ward, or JJ or Mo Tay, or Howard or Lue or Boki or Bowen is playing well enough for us to have a balanced scoring and defensive team? NO The only guy that has been consistant from the bench is Mutumbo's defense. If we want to do any better this year we need to feed the ball to Yao and Tmac more and more and hope we start hitting a higher % of open jumpers when they pass out... And we lack rebounders and we are slow defensively... Other than that we would be about 10-0 right now.
JVG's offense IS ugly as hell, but I'll give gollum until the allstar break before changing my tune. In the mean time, I'm glad no one is overreacting on this board...
And while I'm depressed I'll just add- I don't see us getting any better unless Yao and TMac pick this team up and carry it, with JVG and the rest of the team's cooperation. The role players are not good rebounders, shooters and defenders. Their is not third option. We may make the playoffs. I believe we will. But until either Yao or Tmac take charge and will this team to win in the 4th qtr. we will be up and down this season. over and over- we lack quickness, rebounding and shooting- surrounding Yao and TMac.
