They almost forced a game 7 against the Spurs with their best player out. Many people think they could very well beat SA and go to the Finals had Nowitzki not been injured. I think saying that "they had no chance against a way less talented SA squad" is a bit of an exaggeration.
Actually if you start with how they got Juwan Howard, Cuban has turned Eton Thomas, Courtney Alexander, Hubert Davis, and Christian Laettner (?sp) into Jamison, Fortson, Walker, and Delk
I'm a little late getting into the thread here, but here goes... As a Dallas native I really didn't know what to make of the trade at first. I was stunned. Now, after thinking about it some more I really like the trade. Chad Ford and a few others on this thread have made the great point, "Who can stop Shaq, Duncan, or Yao Ming?" The answer? No one, and certainly not Raef LaFrentz, the fouling machine. Nellie and Cuban came to this realization and then basically said, "Screw all of you in the NBA, we can't get Shaq, TD, or Yao so we'll take it from a different angle." They were already going to this approach when they acquired Jamison... this is simply an extension, albeit a dramatic one. In Dirk Nowitzki, Antoine Walker, and Antwan Jamison, the Mavericks now have 3 of the most versatile players in the game and each a matchup nightmare. For a Don Nelson coached team, that is perfect. Yes, Antoine Walker is overrated. But hey, that's partly on the fans, who voted him as an all-star starter 2 years ago, partly because he plays in Boston, and partly because he has a big ego. He may not be worthy of being a starter, but he is still an all-star talent. Let's look at what he brings to the table: 1. He is extremrely versatile. At 6' 9", he can shoot from outside, handle and pass the ball like a point guard, and post up. His 4.8 assists last year put him the top 30 in the league. He has the best handle of any PF in the game. You can run an offense through him. How many other PFs can say that? 2. He is not as selfish as his detractors think he is. Yes, he is very egotistical and not as good as he thinks he is. I can't stand his annoying "shimmy," but being an arrogant jackass does not have to mean that he is a selfish basketball player. Somewhat selfish, yes, out of neccesity. You'd be a little selfish too if you looked around and saw Tony Battie, JR Bremer and Walta McCarty standing next to you. He was the number one option in Boston before Paul Pierce got there and had no problem stepping back his game so that Pierce's could flourish. And again... 5 assists a game? That is awesome for a PF. Yes, he jacked up tons of what most of us would consider to be ill-advised shots, but those were in the framework of the two-horse, no true PG Boston offense. Paul Pierce put up a ton of bad shots last year too. Vin Baker was supposed to be the third option, but when that didn't happen, it was open season for Pierce and Walker. His shooting percentage was better when he had a half decent PG like Kenny Anderson getting him looks as opposed to a rookie scrub like JR Bremer. 3. He is a workhorse. The guy played 41 minutes last year, dominated the ball like a PG, banged in the post and rebounded like a PF, and he was out of shape last year to boot. Something had to give, and last year it was his shooting percentage. Now he is 20 pounds lighter and in the best shape of his career. It's ironic because he won't even come close to playing 40 minutes a night this season. Better fitness and less minutes will equal better and more efficient production. Just as with the Lakers' signing of Malone and Payton, I believe the greatest benefits of this trade for the Mavs will occur during stretches of a game when the other team will be forced to rest their starters and bring in their 2nd units. Nellie, being the master of mismatches, knows this... being able to have the luxury of running all 5 on the court at the same time is great, but the real advantage is having the ability to beat the other team down when they have lesser talent on the floor. They will be able to overwhelm most teams with their superior depth. At any given point in the game, the Mavs can and will likely field 2-3 of the Big 5 with 2-3 quality players coming off the bench... proven starters in the past like Travis Best or Tony Delk, who has put up 50 pts in a game before. The Mavs will in effect, be able to have a "starting 5 quality" lineup on the floor at all the times. With their firepower, I'm predicting the Mavs will put some games away in the 2nd quarter when some of the other team's starters are out. I'm looking forward to this season more than any other I can remember.
And he's managed to spend a truckload of money... Current 2003-04 contracts: E. Thomas - $2.2m C. Alexander - $2.2m H. Davis - $2.9m Laettner -$5.6m J. Howard - $4.9m versus Jamison - $11.3m Fortson - $5.4m Walker - $13.5m Delk - $2.9m The Mavericks 2003-04 payroll exceeds the Rockets by more than $25m. And they will be well over the cap until after the 2007-08. IMO, Cuban is presently like a Las Vegas gambler who is making a big high stakes spin at the Roulette wheel. Although I like some of the Mavs players, I've never been much of a Mark Cuban fan and I'll be amopng the first to chuckle if he fails to buy a championship.
rainmaker, good analysis, good post. And good point about the Mavs stars playing against team's second units. That's the luxary you have when you have 3+ stars on your team. It allows you to continue to play at a high level when other stars are injured or having off nights.
Although I like some of the Mavs players, I've never been much of a Mark Cuban fan and I'll be amopng the first to chuckle if he fails to buy a championship. I always like this logic. Cuban is trying to BUY a championship. How many players has he bought? All the guys we have aquired were from trades. The reason his payroll is so high is because he signed Dirk and Finley to long term contracts. He didn't buy those guys either. BTW, Cuban's is going about it exactly the right way. This is how you win in this league. You try to keep your best players and get more quality players through trades. Now I understand some here are jealous, but please get the facts strait. Now, you CAN make the argument that the lakers bought their titles with the signing of shaq. Everybody wanted him. They bought him. You can't make that same argument with Cuban.
I just don't buy it with Walker. He is a cancer and he will sabotage the Mav's chemistry because of his me-first attitude. We're talking about a guy who jacked up threes at a record pace for a horrible percentage, but did he stop shooting them even though he made 30 out of every 100 he attempted? Of course not. It would hurt Toine's precious stats. He is a juvenile malcontent, an older version of Eddie Griffin, but with a better handle and better passing skills. And as far as LaFrentz, he is a colossal nothing and a salary cap albatross like Luc Longley, Ostertag or any other soft, slow defenseless center. That's why I say they both struck out on that deal.
Well then, what improvement would you say the Mavs need to become a championship team? They're not going to trade for Shaq, they're not going to sign Tim Duncan. What moves should they be making to win a title? They are doing the best they can to improve their roster. The alternative is to pack it in until Shaq retires...
get frontcourt help...certainly don't trade away the only frontcourt help they currently have. someone has to rebound. someone has to play defense. someone needs to be a deterrant for driving the lane. there's no one like that on dallas. no one plays tough basketball for them.
Lets see....Fortson is their starting center now and his only purpose is to rebound. So, they have done something about their rebounding. Raef can't rebound in traffic or under pressure. Fortson is an upgrade from Raef in rebounding. Especially during the playoffs when Raef seems to fold. Also, Raef wasn't deterring anyone from driving in the lane anyway. He fouled about 75% of the time. So, the Mavs got someone who they can count on offensively, for someone who they couldn't count on either offensively....or defensively. Also, we will see if Walker's defensive improves.
How many has he bought? About 15...same as any other team is allowed. How much did he pay for them? A hell of a lot more than the Rockets paid for their 15. Cuban's going about it the right way? He's on record that he lost $20m last season? That's the right way? Or is he just as superficial with with this statement as he is when he tells Juwan he really wants him in Dallas? The guys a neuvo riche jerk. There is absolutely no similarity between Shaq and the Lakers and Cuban's Mavericks. They operate under a totally different Collective Bargaining Agreements. It was the willingness of some owners to pay higher and higher escalating salaries to players like Shaq, Mourning, KG, Juwan Howard, and Grant Hill which ultimately lead to the lockout and the current CBA. Cuban is trying to buy his way in plain and simple. Don't take my word for it. You don't have to look any futher than the Luxury Tax Clause of the current CBA. The entire principle behind the clause was to penalize renegades like Cuban who make free spending a policy on equal footing with player development.
I really don't see rebounding as an issue for the Mavs. Nowitzki, Walker, Jamison, and Fortson have all put up solid rebounding numbers for their careers. I do agree that they are seriously deficient in the interior defense and "toughness" areas. And yes, when they lose in the playoffs, those will be the reasons why. The problem is, that I don't see how they should solve those areas. I didn't see a single free agent or trade this past season that would have given them the type of player you're talking about. Mutombo is done. Ben Wallace isn't going anywhere. Yao Ming is going to be in Houston for his career (lucky us). If they tried, I bet they could get Theo Ratliff out of Atlanta. They need Charles Oakley in his prime, but there's no equivelant player today. Truthfully, they've tried to attract interior defense in the past. Shawn Bradley was supposed to be an answer to that issue - now he's an afterthought. Raef Lafrentz was supposed to help shore up the D, and he was a complete mismatch for that system. Come to think of it, maybe it's not a player personnel issue at all. Maybe Dallas needs a head coach who can coach championship-level defense.
How many has he bought? About 15...same as any other team is allowed. How much did he pay for them? A hell of a lot more than the Rockets paid for their 15. So, which ones has Cuban bought? Bought is usually a term used for free agent purchases. According to this logic, Shaq is the largest purchase of any team. Cuban merely has been keeping his best players on the roster and trading spare parts for upgraded talent. This Walker trade has actually taken money off the Mavs payroll.
One area the Mavs addressed in this offseason is the post play. In the last playoffs the Mavs had trouble to score in stretches for their lack of variety on offense. Sometimes nobody could hit a jumper in a series of possessions, and the Mavs offense stalled. Now with Jamison and Walker, they can mix it up and avoid more scoring droughts in the playoffs. Walker and Nash's passing game will do wonders for smooth, consistent flow of offense. The Mavs' offense was good, and now it's even better.
In the dictionary "bought" is the past tense of "buy" "Buy" is defined as "to get by paying money". Whether Cuban "gets" expensive players in trade because he is willing to roll the dice on Juwan Howard one year, Nick Van Exel the next and Antoine Walker in a 3rd or whether he re-signs his own FA's is not relevant IMO. His entire solution is rooted spending more money. BTW - Considering that the Celtics and the Mavs are both over the cap the trade had to be be fairly close monywise for this season. So Cuban saved no money this year. Antoine Walker is now the highest paid Maverick. And his contract for next season is $14.6m. And Delk will make an additional $3m. LaFrentz will make $9.1m next season and Mills comes off of Boston's books. No savings for Cuban in Year 2. In year 3, Delk will make $3.4m and LaFrentz just under $10m. If Walker is still in Dallas by the summer 2005, any contract for Walker exceeding $6.4 is still not a savings.
Deuce, you must have read my mind! I saw this coming when they made the trade with GS. This is a coup for Dallas to be able to dump Rafe LaFrenz and the dumbass contract that Cuban gave him. They still have no one playing center but at least now they will get some rebounds. Plus, they have players on the roster that are very attractive trade pieces (Jamison). It makes you wonder what is the mindset in Rocketland. Compared to Dallas, we have no frontline players outside of Yao, Cato and maybe MoT (if he can ever get on the court). This is simply not enough too carry them far in the West.
I agree with you except for passing. Nellie was on the radio yesterday discussing the trade and he admits to being concerned that Nash is now his only good passer but that's one area that they intend to address as time passes.
Nash is a great passer, Walker is an excellent passer, Dirk, Finley & Best are good passers. I wouldn't worry about this--they are better off than last year in this department. Now interior defense is a problem, but for every block Lafrenz got he made a boneheaded foul or let his man get right around him for an easy 2 (or easy 3) so I don't think this trade hurts them much in this department. If they could add a Ratliff, Cato, Damper, Clarke or maybe even a Battie or Foyle--not too hard for Cuban to probably get while keeping his prime pieces-- to go along with Bradley they would be much better off defensively than with Lafrenz. Forston is a much better rebounder than Lafrenz anyway (perhaps Walker too)--so they have a big net gain over last year in that department. The mindset is that we have a cheap ass owner, one who has made money off the team and whose team if he sold it (please do) is worth far more than when he bought it. Dallas is lucky they have an owner like that--I have little doubt if we had an owner like that to go along with our phenomenal luck in landing Yao and Francis we would be the franchise of the future. As it stands now, who knows, we certainly haven't added any talent who looks likely to grow with Yao/Francis. More less from Dallas perspective Cuban has done an amazing job getting the best pieces he can around his nucleus. Sure he could use an impact interior defense players--they don't grow on tree's though, but if he needs to make a move by the trade deadline who really doubts he won't do everything within his power to do it.
Les is NOT a cheap owner. Anybody that spends over $100 million on Kelvin Cato, Maurice Taylor, and Moochie Norris is not cheap. He also gave a max contract to Francis Bad spender? Yes Cheap? No
A-Train, I agree. I personally believe that if the Rockets can obtain a 3rd star type player Les will spend what it takes to get that player. I don't think Les will overspend for role players (sans the mistakes of the past). In other words Les is not going to overpay for a James Posey but will pay top dollar for a Ray Allen or Elton Brand type player if they were available to us.
