Cuban has been trading crap for good players now for the last few years. Just look at the evidence. Never underestimate Cuban.
Well read it again and you'll find out I was fortunate enough to punch in Jameson and/or Walker . I find Jamison alone would get the job done - a once 25 ppg 9 rbs scorer in the west vs. a solid 10/9 center in the east. If the salary issue can be worked out, I don't see why it doesn't worth consideration. Jamison can play pf in the east, along with Davis and Mashburn they will rule. The Hornets probably will kill to do this trade.
FYI, this is from the Trade Transcript. Give some ideas of Mavs lineups. http://www.nba.com/mavericks/news/boston_trade_transcript_102003.html On having all 5 guys on the court, with Dirk at center: "You’ll definitely see that line-up which will probably be our closing line-up for most games. There are certain players that Dirk will have a tough time guarding, but with the zones and double-teaming schemes we think that is a line-up that we will be able to afford to play for pretty good stretches of games. That’s probably our most potent line-up. With both Antawn Jamison and Antoine Walker at the 3 and 4 and Dirk at the 5, it’s a pretty tough line-up to match up with." "There will be some minute adjustments, changes in the positioning and I am asking Antawn Jamison to be my sixth man this year. I think that is going to be really good for our ball club. He is instant offense. I didn’t have a lot of scoring coming off the bench and I think this takes care of that. I think the point-forward player should be in the mix a little bit more as a starter, so that is why I like Walker as a starter and Jamison coming off the bench. Jamsion has the ability to score in bunches. My vision down the stretch is that all five will be playing together." So it looks like the starting lineup is: Nash Finley Walker Nowitzki Fortson with Jamison, Delk, Best and Howard coming off the bench.
It's a bad deal for Boston and like most everyone I don't think they are enough shots for every player on the Mavs.
Actually I think Boston came out OK on this one. Jiri Welsch looks to be a good player (I don't think he's in Boki status). You might get a more balanced offense in Boston. Right before Pitino left Boston, he noticed Walker sulking in the timeout and asked an assistant coach what was Walker's problem. "You don't want to know." "Tell me." "He isn't getting enough touches." Not that I'm standing up for Pitino, but Walker can be very disruptive. Dallas should be fun to watch, though. I'll give Cuban that much credit.
anyone remember walker sulking on the bench during the allstar game? thats what you get for being a fat, overrated tub of poo.
Sometimes I wonder if Nelson and Cuban are involved in some kind of experiment to shoehorn as many players who need the ball to be successful on one team. Instead of going out and getting the shotblocker/rebounder/blue collar guy like a Theo Ratliff (he is healthy again) they desperately need, they get a selfish, whining, overrated, bloated, defenseless, camp-out-at-the-trifecta line and lob threes at 30 percent a clip guy who to me isn't worth ten cents. Maybe they did it to create some cap room? LaFrentz will be much more effective in the East, but he is just not a top tier big man. He is maybe a second tier guy who if he has the talent, but not the desire to be a top-tier guy in the middle. I think Dallas made themselves a lot worse and Boston made their stay in salary cap purgatory a lot longer, with that big fat extension LaFrentz signed as a Mav. This is one of the few trades where both teams are equal.....equally screwed.
A purpose of the trade for Dallas is to lower their cap in the following years. I know that Cuban is the owner but he too has a limit. And Steve Nash is up for a contract extension soon. So the money they save from this deal will go to Nash.
Everyone saying that Toine is disruptive is right. However, there were plenty of rumors saying he lost about 25 lbs and worked out and got into the best shape of his life. I'm not saying that'll translate into him being less of a whiny ballhog, but it might increase his level of play. He just might start to want to bang down low with the big boys as well as take those (ill-advised) threes. I don't know how they'll work Walker and Jamison together, but I'm sure Jamison will defer. He's just happy to be in a winning program for the first time.
Forgive me, for I have not read this thread. This is just SHOCKING! I can't believe they pulled this off. Walker and Jamison.
You need to explain that little quote. How exactly did Dallas make themselves a lot worse? LaFrentz was nothing, nada, zip. LaFrentz was one of the biggest theives to ever come to Dallas. Maybe the biggest. So in terms of production Dallas gave up absolutely nothing. At worst, Walker comes in play's horrible and is a locker room cancer. At that point Cuban cuts him or trades him. Make no mistake about it, Cuban will cut his sorry ass and eat the salery before he allows Walker to destroy that teams chemistry. At best the Mavs have acquired a tripple double man that can be a scoring option or a play maker. There is no denying Walkers talent and Cuban has converted a few other so called head cases such as Juwan Howard and Nick Van Exel. There is no way that Dallas is worse after this trade.
Cuban has no limit. Period. This move was all about getting rid of a non productive tub of lard in Reaf LaFrentz and bringing in a player that has performed at a much higher level than LaFrentz. Had Reaf worked out Cuban would have happily continued paying Reaf his huge undiserved salery. Cuban only makes moves with on thing in mind...how it affects the product on the floor.
Nellie on local Dallas TV when asked "who's starting at center vs. the Lakers??" replied, "I don't know that right now... you tell me." Sounds like another trade coming to me. Also, they will keep both Walker and Jamison apparently, because they said Nellie convinced Jamison that coming off the bench would be beneficial for the team. May find more at wfaa.com -the local channel with that spin on the story. FYI.
I just got through reading the thread and really enjoyed it. Cuban and Nellie are something else. Damn! You have to think they're going to have Fortson at center. Dirk would get the **** knocked out of him on a regular basis, otherwise. I'm going to love watching them play the Rocks, who will kill them at the 5 at least. You have to think Dallas will make another move. Maybe not soon, but before the deadline. One other thing, this shows there are deals to be made if the will is there. Maybe the Rockets still have a move up their sleeve. I keep thinking they do.
What are you talking about? They are way over the cap for a long time. It probably will be another 5-6 years befoer they come close.
You act as if Dal was EVER a title contender. Even when they reached the WCF, they barely beat a Webber-less Kings squad. They also had no chance against a way less talented SA squad. Talent isn't why Dal lost. I think it's obvious that they lack defense and rebounding. It's crazy to think they passed up on Brian Grant to get Jamison, a SF/PF who gives them nothing they don't already have. Until the team gets tougher on defense both on the perimeter and inside, they will be 2nd round and out, if they have face LA, Sac, or SA in the 2nd round. Hell, Min could be more of a playoff force than Dallas.
exactly...there is ONE goal. you can be happy with improvement from year to year...but ultimately you're improving to win a ring. i'm not saying they won't be a good team...they will be. but they won't be a great team...they won't be a championship team...everything else is just distraction in the form of entertainment.
Mavericks breaking all the rules ------------------------------------------------ By David Aldridge, ESPN.com http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=aldridge_david&id=1642765 You never trade your best player (or second-best player) for anyone other than the other team's best player (or second-best player). But for the second time in three months, the Dallas Mavericks have gotten a team to violate that sacred NBA principle. By getting Antoine Walker and Tony Delk from Boston for Raef LaFrentz, Jiri Welsch, Chris Mills and a future No. 1 pick, the Mavs, essentially, traded Nick Van Exel and LaFrentz -- and their $100 million in combined contracts -- for Antawn Jamison, Walker and Tony Delk, which I would call a steal. (Once and for all, let us retire the notion that there are untradeable players in the L.) The Mavs-Celtics part of that deal allowed Mark Cuban to erase his own mistake ($69 million for LaFrentz last year) and re-direct that money to Steve Nash, who can opt out of his deal -- a modest $5.9 million on the cap -- after this season. Dallas would have had to cough up for Nash anyway, but now the Mavs can pay him without taking a prohibitive luxury tax hit down the road. On the court, yes, Dallas has a lot of forwards -- Dirk Nowitzki, Jamison, Walker, Danny Fortson and Eduardo Najera. But if there's anyone who loves throwing guys out on the floor without a thought to their normal position, it's Nellie. If the Mavs zone it up more this season, they could force you to face these five at the other end: Walker at point forward, Nash (or Delk) at the two, Michael Finley at the three, Jamison at the four -- and Dirk Diggler in the middle! What center do you know that's going to chase him around screens? (And the Mavs have to wonder if Fortson is going to be able to stay on the floor this season.) Nellie loved to go small with Van Exel and Nash together in the backcourt last season. Travis Best isn't that kind of combo guard. But now, Delk can step into the Nick at Nite role alongside Nash (or Best). Van Exel had a great postseason; he took out the Kings almost by himself. But isn't it reasonable to assume that he can't play much better? For much longer? At best, he was Dallas' third-best last season, and it is Finley who remains the team's heart and soul -- and its best conduit to Walker, a fellow Chicagoan and good friend. There were nights when LaFrentz rebounded and blocked shots, but there were too many more nights when he just didn't deliver. Nellie tried yelling, he tried kid gloves, he tried ignoring, but he couldn't get consistent play out of him. Nor did LaFrentz play well next to Shawn Bradley, and we know Bradley isn't going anywhere. Is Dallas giving up defense for more offense? Yeah, and what are you going to do about it? That's what the Mavs do. And if Cuban has proven one thing since taking over, it's that he can find somebody that will take his bad contracts. So if Jamison doesn't pan out, he'll be sent packing somewhere, and Dallas will re-sign Walker, who has an opt-out at season's end. I just like Walker more than others, I suspect. Here's what the Celtics are likely thinking: They had neither the inclination nor the (pre-tax) dollars to give Walker the big extension he was looking for (as I've told you both in print and on TV, Danny Ainge's first meeting over the summer with 'Toine was a disaster, with Ainge telling Walker he didn't think much of his game and Walker telling associates he was definitely out of Beantown at year's end). So Walker was on borrowed time from the time camp began, although he dropped close to 20 pounds over the summer. The C's made summertime calls to the Blazers and Clippers (I thought they'd get something done with the Pacers, who have always coveted Walker), but when they couldn't lay a glove on Rasheed Wallace or Elton Brand, they turned to Dallas. In the East, I suppose LaFrentz is more than a credible center -- when he was in Denver, a half-dozen Eastern teams were salivating for his services -- whose perimeter skills should open up driving lanes for Paul Pierce. In the East, his shot-blocking skills may be more in play -- especially if Boston's team D gets back to where it was two years ago. And Boston believes that Walker's scoring can be made up by increased contributions across the board, from camp surprise Mike James (signed after coach Jim O'Brien and Ainge got the Alonzo Mourning seal of approval for his ex-Heatmate) to LaFrentz to Eric Williams and rookie Marcus Banks. To me, though, trading Walker puts the spotlight square on Vin Baker. He's dropped 30 pounds, and he's showing some of the low-post skills he had in the past. He's been excelling in outlet passing drills and overall, he's had such a strong preseason that he's got a new nickname -- "Flash," as in flashbacks. Now, though, Baker's not just a good camp story, he's a necessity. With Walker gone, Baker has to be the Celtic who gets in the post, who hits the glass, who gets to the foul line along with Pierce. I know that the Celtics view this as a potential four-for-one deal. They think Welsch has combo guard skills, but so did the Mavs, and so did the Warriors. The first-round pick, probably late in the round, will produce a low-salaried player who can be developed during the next five years. And the short-term savings of LaFrentz's deal over Walker's could allow Boston to get in the market for a mid-level exception free agent next summer. All true, but ... You don't trade your biggest assets for more, smaller assets, no matter how many of them come back to you. Is Walker overrated? A ball hog? A turnover machine? All three may be true. But he was still an All-Star, and one of the key reasons the C's had gotten back to being a playoff team. Ainge needed to do better than this. David Aldridge, who covers the NBA for ESPN, is a regular contributor to ESPN.com.
