If these guys want to protest, fine. Whatever. They can even do it right outside the gates if they want to. But if they engage in sabotage or attempt to infiltrate a military facility with the intent to engage in sabotage, they will be shot. This is not a friggen game. We have orders to shoot them. We are not cops, we don't arrest people. They will be shot.
So you're cool with power plants, water systems, the Federal Reserve, oil companies, the Pacific Exchange and the Transamerica Building in San Francisco, just not the air force bases listed in the original article? Couldn't protests in front of power plants, water systems, the Federal Reserve, oil companies, the Pacific Exchange and the Transamerica Building endanger lives?
Treeman, if they block the entrance to the military facility, should they also be shot, or should they just be arrested?
Um, for the record, I am not one of the San Franciscans planning to disrupt economic or basic services in the city. As for shooting the peace movement in the foot, yeah, some of these idiots could just about do that. Hayes, nice one on driving to the military bases. At least, whatever I do, I'm typically on foot. But then, I don't ever say "No blood for oil" either, so I guess I can drive if I want. Everything hinges on the success of our armed forces now, it seems to me. Quick and relatively painless "victory," then protestors go home, international community takes a deep breath, etc. I heard a leftie here yesterday say "well, the bad thing is that, if things go well, Bush will probably get reelected..." That made me very angry. How is an election really comparable to all the lives that could be lost on both sides? Again, here's hoping that the Iraqis just completely roll over. Cheers.
Not my responsibility or jurisdiction. I suspect that the local police will move them. Forcibly, if need be. They will not be allowed to block traffic into or out of a military facility. I would guess that they will be arrested. We won't shoot them outside the facility, not under our jurisdiction.
Any of those places they should be arrested and of the places I stated before they should be shot or tried for treason. There is a right place and time for anything. If they are stupid enough to block a military facilaty during a war they deserve what ever they get.
I read somewhere that some were going to attempt to enter military facilities... that would be suicide.
<a HREF="http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAW9Q2CCDD.html">Air Force Base Authorizes 'deadly Force' Against Trespassing Protesters</a> <i> VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AP) - Security forces at Vandenberg Air Force Base are allowed to use "deadly force" in some cases if any anti-war demonstrators infiltrate the military complex, officials said. Some anti-war activists have announced plans to trespass in hopes of disturbing Vandenberg's mission and to vandalize sensitive equipment they believe helps the war effort. Vandenberg officials revealed Friday that military security police have always been allowed to shoot to kill, if necessary, to protect base residents and equipment. It is more critical now that people understand the severity of that policy, a base spokeswoman said. "This is not fun and games anymore," said Maj. Stacee Bako. "We're living in post 9-11. We don't know what's going to happen with the war effort in Iraq." Military police will use their judgment, experience and training to determine if lethal force is necessary, she said. "It's impossible for us to determine what their intent is," she said. "Are they protesters? Are there terrorists in that group and (do) they plan on killing everyone on base?" <b> The policy will not deter protesters, said Peter Lumsdaine of the Vandenberg Action Coalition, one of the organizers of the planned trespassing. "I think it does underline that people in the nonviolent resistance movement are willing to take some risks," Lumsdaine said. </b> </i> That is a big risk.
I wish I were making this stuff up. Iraq War Protester Dies in Golden Gate Bridge Fall Fight the MAN, not gravity!
RIP. From what I've heard locally, it was not a suicide, but an accident. Protesting does not automatically equal stupid. Sorry if that complicates the world view of people around here.
I just went and took a look at the clowns protesting on Smith street. As expected: 1) The group is tiny -- there are no more than 50 of them 2) Not a single one of them looks as though they have either bathed or shaved in weeks 3) Judging by the effort they put into their signs, protesting this war is only worth 5-10 minutes to them 4) They are incapable of stringing together more than 2 words to form a coherent thought (i.e. "No War" "End Genocide") 5) They have no fashion sense (I'm not saying I'm Calvin Klein, but I do know that green is not an acceptable color for knee-high socks). Most of the people driving home (you know, the people with actual jobs and places to be in the afternoon) just were gawking at the herd. I didn't see any confrontations, however I might make a drive-by when I leave the office and 'engage them in discussion'.
To hang a banner on the Golden Gate Bridge without proper equipment or protection IS stupid. Plus the action is probably unlawful because he is unlikely to get any permit. Sure the guy might have strong convictions. However, meaningful political protest also requires some brain.
I think TJ today employed concerted efforts to convince everyone that he is a fashion-sensible, polite, sensitive and respectable office coworker From now on, no one can accuse him of being a redneck anymore
Protesting the military or power plants is foolish because anyone working at those places is going to laugh and wonder what the hell you're doing. I'm not anti-war but I am anti-bush/bigoil so if I were to waste my time futilely protesting something I couldn't change I suppose maybe I'd hang out outside Exxon headquarters or the whitehouse. I think American Citizens are under the mistaken impression that military police are under the same handicaps as civilian police. The minute you set foot on a military base you give up a majority of the rights that you think you're entitled to. Military Police can and will shoot if you trespass on a sensitive installation.
Okay, I almost started a new thread for this -- now I've got BIG problems with the "peace" protestors. On my way to work today, a guy started shaking his sign in my face. "Don't go to work!" he said. "Join the protest!" I said: "So you want me to take your frustrations out on a bunch of 19-yr-olds who pay good money and work their asses off (well, sometimes) for me to educate them? Nice." "Well, you've got to show the powers that be!" "My boss is a school." "Oh..." "Yeah, what if I was an ambulance driver? Would you want me to take the day off?" The guy walked away. I understand the frustration, but this town is a complete mess now, and to what end? So a bunch of angry people have brought a peaceful city to a standstill (buses can't run, people can't get to hospitals, etc). My local grocery co-operative has decided to shut down. Oh good! Without their tofu, incense, and organic veggies, the administration will withdraw the troops! Idiots. It's not enough to make me change my politics, but these people are so ridiculous and misguided, in my opinion.
Excellent post, B-Bob. As I've maintained for quite some time, these people are completely devoid of logic, they have no position that they stand behind, they have no viable alternate course of action, and their anger clouds their judgment to the point of insanity. They are not people who should be given an ear and they are certainly not people who should help shape American foreign policy. I applaud you for engaging them in debate and uncovering the true depth of their ill-conceived argument.
