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Anti-police atmosphere leads to yet another shooting of police

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by bigtexxx, Sep 17, 2016.

  1. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I call that an assumption based on experience. It's what I've been pointing out this whole time. There's a causal relationship between the ridiculously high percentage of murders committed by black people and how police respond to them. There's a bit of "white guilt" going on which makes white officers give more benefit of the doubt than officers of any other race, but it's something that every officer has to deal with.

    Also, that's not the only thing that people are judged based on. Age, size, gender, all of those things are also considered when a person does a threat assessment. You can be upset about it, but that's life man.

    Who said I'm happy about it? I don't feel one way or the other about it, that's just how life works. Want to change it? You have to change the culture of violence.

    .....again, I'm the one suggesting changes that would actually make things better while you are busy scapegoating and demonizing the police. You won't get any change that way. The only way change happens is when you change the culture that accepts and promotes violence, the culture that promotes criminality.

    If you want real change, that's what needs changing.
     
  2. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine
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    Stop peddling this obtuse, ignorant garbage.
     
  3. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    You're going to need stats to back that up. The stat you will need to show that would be something that would say that officers that have killed a non-attacking black person were attacked before by a black person.

    If you have such stat then please. Otherwise you are just assuming that is always the case. If you have a study or graph that shows that then be my guest.

    This does nothing to innocent people affected by it. You don't understand how that would anger a black person? That because some other black guy attacked a cop that they are now assumed dangerous?

    Also, you are forgetting that white people also kill cops? 52% IIRC, more than half of officer deaths are at the hands of white people. The difference is that for some reason the narrative that black people are dangerous and violent continues to be perpetuated.This narrative never extends to white people, this narrative continues to affect black people on every level of the justice system. Like how they get harsher sentences for the same crimes.

    Maybe speak up against it more instead of just accepting that's how things are.


    Not demonizing cops at all, it's not my fault that some kill people based on stereotypes.

    I just reported the facts right? You reported the facts to try and prove your point, are you demonizing black people?

    As for this culture you are going to have to be far more specific than that because sorry to tell you, not all black people are part of the same 'culture' I know that's hard for some to believe.
     
  4. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I've already posted you the statistics that back up what I was saying, 52% of all murders in the US are committed by black people. Over 40% of all cops murdered are by black people......you don't think cops would know that or pay attention to something like that? On top of that, certain neighborhoods are always more violent and house more criminals than others. Cops react differently when in those neighborhoods.

    You act like that's the only demographic that has to deal with their profile....When they look for a serial killer, who are they looking for? White male, late 20's to mid 30's. Is that unfair? Of course not. Why is that the profile? Well that's because just over 52% of serial killers are white males.

    Are you seriously not understanding why things like this happen?

    Of course I'm not forgetting that, but it has less impact when you consider that they are something like 70% of the population and still only contribute 45% of the total murders. I mean, when 13% is killing more people than the other 87% combined....

    The "narrative" is based on the numbers. It proves to be a true narrative and that's been my whole point. That is what needs to change. If you want black cops to start giving black criminals the benefit of the doubt then the violence has to stop. It won't change until that changes.
     
  5. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Not the statistics that officers assumption is by experience. That means that you are saying the officers that kill a black person that's not attacking is because they've already been attacked by a black person.

    Well 52% of cop murders are by white people, should they take that into affect as well?

    No, that is unfair but if the suspect has a chance at a fair trial than that is fair.

    Your situation isn't equal at all since we are basically talking about suspects that are being killed without a trial. That's not acceptable. No matter the excuse that shouldn't be acceptable.

    Not only that, despite the stereotype of a serial killer being white it is not extended to every white male. Meanwhile a black guy kills a cop then hey, that mean it's alright for another cop to kill another black guy. They must all be cop killers so it's okay to treat them all like cop killers.

    Well then my narrative is also based on the numbers and proves to be a true narrative as well.

    The violence has to stop? That much is obvious. That extends to victims of police murders that are not attacking, that should be stated as well.

    The problem is for some people black people are a monolith. Every black person has to answer for Chicago, for police murders, for a theft, whatever. Now I guess if someone is being arrested for any reason and is killed then that's alright...because some other black guy killed a cop elsewhere so it was okay for this cop to assume this black guy was going to kill him.

    Compromise is about both sides you know, if you can't even admit that it's wrong for people to be killed due to a stereotype then I don't know what else to tell you.

    Personally I would just not like to be assumed that I'm dangerous because of my skin color.

    Again, stereotypes are a part of life unfortunately but when they are the reason that people are killed then perhaps outrage is necessary and change should be demanded.
     
  6. supdudes

    supdudes Member

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    Jay,

    I appreciate you bringing up stats. The post you sent for more info, I read the first few paragraphs. I won't answer all your stats (There were alot to examine.) I'll focus on the hard hitters.

    The first stat in your article (http://www.jbwtucker.com/ultimate-white-privilege-statistics/) said:

    Young black boys/men, ages 15-19, are 21 times more likely to be to be shot and killed by the police than young white boys/men.[1]
    Blacks are less than 13% of the U.S. population, and yet they are 31% of all fatal police shooting victims, and 39% of those killed by police even though they weren’t attacking.[2] See chart:


    The source listed was: https://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white

    The cited source establishes in its introduction.

    "Our examination involved detailed accounts of more than 12,000 police homicides stretching from 1980 to 2012 contained in the FBI's Supplementary Homicide Report."

    That's a long time. If we look at more recent stats, they show that there is a clear downward trend in violent victimization of blacks from 2002 to 2013.

    Source: http://www.amren.com/archives/reports/the-color-of-crime-2016-revised-edition/

    I think that the D & D is better served with discussions like these rather than petty name calling and emotional based arguments.
     
  7. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    We're not talking about people killed due to a stereotype, we're talking about people killed due to their actions. You instantly assume that those killed "while not attacking" are all murders....but that's not the case. The actual numbers when it comes to police officers murdering people are incredibly small. Your narrative just doesn't hold up to reality.
     
  8. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Agreed. I'm willing to listen to the other side if there is something backing it but I ask the same from others. I also realize that essay I linked is a lot to go through but I think it makes a very good point that black people still have grievances that should be addressed. That is based not on emotions or feelings but just the numbers and studies presented.

    As for your point there isn't much to disagree or comment on, it would make sense that it would trend downwards after all given this country's history but we have to get to a point where they aren't over represented.
     
  9. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    The report and graph in question talks about killed by police, nothing else. 'Murders' or 'Killed' i'm not going into the language of law here. I'm not saying that the cops go out and look for black people to kill. Technically that's how the law defines murder, pre-meditated. Mines is that because of stereotypes they presume someone is more dangerous because of their race.

    You even agree with this. That the reason is because of stereotypes.

    [​IMG]

    Also more people (black, white, Hispanic, whatever) are killed by police than the other way around. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36826297

    So yes I am talking about a stereotype killing people. As for their actions people arrested are suspects, not criminals. 6th amendment here. So no they don't deserve anything but an arrest and a fair trial...again 6th amendment.

    If you attack an officer then you deserve what you get, you'll find no disagreement with me there. Officers have a right to defend themselves just like every other citizen.
     
  10. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    What a well reasoned counter argument. You have clearly bested me sir. I salute you.
     
  11. Granville

    Granville Member

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    He really isn't. I'm suprised that it took you this long to figure it out.
     
  12. TheresTheDagger

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    I put her on ignore.

    BTW, your post was right on the mark. But the victim mentality will never see it that way to their own detriment.
     
  13. SF3isBack!!

    SF3isBack!! Member

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    Police shootings are not up, thats all that needs to be said this in this thread. This should not be this long.
     
  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Sorry logic doesn't work with these guys. They are brainwashed sheep who are mentally unable to accept their own biases.
     
  15. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine
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    You should salute me. You post a bunch of freakonomics type findings on what makes people successful and then you pretend that there's no racial component to the reams and reams of data that is based in discrimination, racism, and abuse of power. It's pathetic. You've created this data driven model in your mind that completely ignores why certain people don't have the tools to be successful. I've presented multiple factual instances of documented racial targeting and you just keep talking about people making choices. You just keep repeating the same willfully ignorant garbage. You haven't learned a damn thing about these problems and why they exist. It's obtuse and it's incredibly insulting.
     
  16. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Fixed it for you.
     
  17. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Simple minded logic. ...and wrong.

    see my sig. Listen to Dr King's words...educate yourself
     
  18. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Looks like several people plainly ignored all of my posts. There are many reasons why a black person would have greivances, yes still.

    This is why there is no discussion. Someone like DD makes a post like that and what is the response? Exactly.


    StupidMonker says all you have to do is work hard and blah blah...

    I post this...
    But nah, lets just ignore that completely.
     
  19. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    Statistics don't happen in a vacuum. They have causes. Economic and social discrimination are the starting point and escalator of the black/police relationship. The drug market is one of the more accessible avenues of economic success for people shut out the 'system' of education and opportunity. The drug war and unregulated drug industry lead to violence.
     
  20. Patience

    Patience Contributing Member
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    Stereotyping based on race is exactly the definition of racism. Yes, it is a racist thing. You are arguing that racist behavior is rational.

    Believe it or not I believe everybody is a little bit racist. I am. You are. We all are. I don't want to be, I try not to be, but we all have unconscious biases.

    Yet the most galling thing in political discussion these days is that the people who most overtly advocate racist beliefs and behaviors are the ones who whine the most about how they are not racist. If you are excusing or justifying stereotyping based on race, then you are advocating racism. Just own it.

    If you are going to just sit there and say "it is rational", then you believe racism is rational. Why are you denying this by saying "it's not a racism thing"? Yes, by definition it IS a racism thing, and we should all be trying to change that. We should all make an effort to not stereotype based on race, whether we are black or white. To say "it is rational" is just laziness, and giving in to the worst aspects of human nature.
     

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