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Anti-police atmosphere leads to yet another shooting of police

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by bigtexxx, Sep 17, 2016.

  1. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    But not in favor of black people as is being suggested. When you poll Asians on this well...

    [​IMG]
     
  2. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Do you not understand the graph?

    It is stereotyping, did you read anything I posted? It is contradictory to what you are suggesting. It is saying that if a white person is arrested they are less likely to be shot...whether they are attacking or not attacking. Do you get that?

    You've ignored every other fact I posted.


    So how do you explain 42% killed while not attacking?


    Do you not understand the graph as well? It accounts for attack and non-attack.
     
  3. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    affirmative action : a little step that came way too late but also continuously used as an embitterment channel of cat's-paw to attack minorities
     
  4. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I already answered that, twice actually, here I'll try to make it easier for you

    Now I even bolded it for you, no chance you miss it yet again....right?

    Now we can either have a discussion about how we can change the root of the problem which is cultural, or we can keep demonizing cops and scapegoating them for the problems in the black community.
     
  5. dandorotik

    dandorotik Contributing Member

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    In 8 years under George W. Bush, 1,375 officers were killed in the line of duty. In 7.75 years under Obama, the number is 1,030. I don't have the stats for shootings vs. vehicle crashes, but based on the law of averages, I am nearly 100% positive that these numbers reflect a decrease in both types.

    So, instead of using your partisan bias to make stupid statements, how about doing some research for a change?
     
  6. dandorotik

    dandorotik Contributing Member

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    Why does it have to either/or? Can not both of these be worked on???
     
  7. supdudes

    supdudes Member

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    I'm Asian and I am for everyone being equal under the law. I believe in meritocracy, and the need for ability to be rewarded, not NEED. You need wealth? Earn it.

    Your drug habit, poor neighborhood, uneducated single mom is not a bargaining chip. Your ability and your desire for ability are.

    So shut up about being oppressed when all these people who have no cultural gain for supporting you want you to be unfairly advantaged. Study hard and stop embracing victim hood.

    Btw Asian women earn more than hispanic and black men, and Asians men earn the most by a huge margin.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-01/asian-men-win-the-hourly-earnings-race-in-america
     
  8. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    That's a piss poor explanation. Basically "Stereotyping is perfectly fine." is that your final answer?

    So lets break this down.

    Blacks are 13% of the population. WHILE NOT ATTACKING they are killed 39% of the time.

    Whites are 63% of the population. WHILE NOT ATTACKING they are killed 46% of the time.

    Hispanics are 17% of the population. WHILE NOT ATTACKING they are killed 12% of the time.

    Two of these demographics are underrepresented. Period. Your excuse to this is "Well, some other black guy attacked a cop so that explains why an officer killed another black guy that wasn't attacking a cop." how is that even remotely fair?

    You despise Trump right? This is the SAME mentality he has for his Muslim ban. The exact same mentality. That is ban all muslims because there could be a few that are terrorists. This is the same mentality Bobby.


    Address my other facts and read the essay I posted if you really want to have a discussion. It isn't a discussion when you completely ignore things from the other side.
     
  9. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Well sure I guess we could keep demonizing and scapegoating police while still working on the real causes, but why would we want to? Take the violence in the black community out of the equation and the numbers change, not overnight, but quicker than some would think. I guess we could keep feeding into persecution complexes until then but I think it would lead to more violence against cops which would continue the problem.
     
  10. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Hint: you didn't prove anything with your post. The fact that even a single policeman is killed by this "anti-police" movement is one too many.

    throwing out a total number of police killed stat is not relevant, as there are many other ways police are killed
     
  11. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Good for you, that doesn't change the poll though now does it.

    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=10692238&postcount=46

    Address my post then.

    If you want to know more then read this.
    http://www.jbwtucker.com/ultimate-white-privilege-statistics/
     
  12. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I'm saying it's human nature. You call it "stereotyping" but it's part of any threat analysis. Again instead of getting butt hurt and emotional about it, just compare the numbers of those who kill cops with those who cops kill and see how they match up pretty well.

    What's funny about this is that if you were a cop, you'd do the same thing. It's not a racist thing at all, it's just people responding to threats in a rational manner.
     
  13. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Same Trump mentality then. Isn't his Muslim ban threat analysis as well? I mean just ban them all then you won't deal with any worries about taking in some ISIS nut who plans to blow up a building.

    Again, this doesn't explain those killed while not attacking. This keeps going right over your head.

    As for butt hurt well excuse me! Sorry! I guess I care about people being needlessly killed and you don't! Sorry about that!

    You realize these stats include those not attacking officers...right?

    How in the world are you a threat if you are not attacking?
     
  14. supdudes

    supdudes Member

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    Precisely. Here's some info.

    "4. Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers. This is according to a Department of Justice report in 2015 about the Philadelphia Police Department, and is further confirmed that by a study conducted University of Pennsylvania criminologist Greg Ridgeway in 2015 that determined black cops were 3.3 times more likely to fire a gun than other cops at a crime scene.

    5. Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops. This is according to FBI data, which also found that 40 percent of cop killers are black. According to Mac Donald, the police officer is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black than a cop killing an unarmed black person."

    Source: http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    We'll try this again.

    Do you know what the "benefit of the doubt" means? Perhaps that's the disconnect here.

    As to caring about people needlessly killed, if you really cared about that, you'd worry more about the 52% of people murdered by 13% of the population....or maybe you'd worry about the 100% of people murdered in the country. Instead, you are only concerned about the relatively tiny number of black criminals getting shot by police. It's pretty clear why that's your concern.
     
  16. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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  17. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    What benefit of the doubt is needed for someone to be killed by a cop WHILE NOT ATTACKING SAID COP.

    Seriously. The disconnect is you are treating all of that 39% figure as people that are attacking cops, when according to the FBI that is not the case.

    Again, Whites and Hispanics are underrepresented and blacks are not. They are the only demographic over represented here, AGAIN this is counting victims killed WHILE NOT ATTACKING. I don't know how many times I must emphasize it.

    Is the 40 something % number too high? Yes it is. IMO and in a perfect world you don't attack an officer and you should not be killed in any circumstances, given that no circumstance is perfect but still. That room for error should NOT be 43% when that error is life or death.

    What you seem to just not understand at all is that blacks are more likely to be killed by cops WHILE NOT ATTACKING and how that would upset people.

    In your mind it's explained by stereotyping. So in your mind stereotyping is alright or are you just saying "The reality is that people stereotype, that's just how things are." if you are saying the latter then fine, I'd agree.

    Instead I get the hint that you are alright with the stereotyping and okay with it, even when the result of said stereotyping is death.
     
  18. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Cops have to determine the intentions of everyone they interact with, it's only natural to hedge towards what the numbers (or your experience) say is likely. As such, they are more likely to interpret the actions of some as hostile than they would others. Like I said, they are less likely to give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their intentions. If someone is not obeying commands, and they are a 90 year old woman, maybe you think she's just senile or that she can't hear you....if someone is in a more typically violent demographic, the assumption would be different.

    This really is common sense stuff and like I said before, you'd do exactly the same thing if in their position. Of course on the outside looking in and having a persecution complex, you view things differently. They are your oppressor instead of your neighbor in your mind.
     
  19. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Yes, all true. That's because of stereotyping and everyone stereotypes, even people against their own race. Happens all the time. Said stereotyping shouldn't lead to people getting killed though, do you agree?

    The % of cop killers is disproportionately high and is a problem...

    What is also a problem is that blacks are more likely to be killed by cops whether they are attacking the officer or not. How do you feel about that?

    You see, this is how a discussion is handled. I listen to your facts and you listen to mines.

    There is no discussion to be had if you just ignore every thing that the other side says and continue on with your narrative.
     
  20. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Yes they do but we are talking between 13% and 39%....if the number was 13% and 20% then maybe you'd have a point. Like I said, room for error and all...but the disparity is too large for their not to be an alarm.

    The problem is this. Your old woman example is perfect. In such a situation someone may assume that "Oh she probably can't hear me." and as such be gentler in the situation. Perfectly correct.

    The problem is with a black person that assumption turns into "This person is dangerous." because of the color of their skin. What do you call that?

    Hint hint...people are being judged by the color of their skin and not the content of their character. It should hit you "Why are blacks the only one over represented there?" it really should. You explained it as "Well because black people are more likely to attack police officers." Well you are right there, that doesn't then make it fair, does it?

    While your explanation is sufficient it isn't something you should be happy about...unless again you are fine with people being killed while being arrested and of course not attacking the police. When you consider that they are suspects that are not guilty and have no trial yet then that should trouble you or an empathetic person.

    If your verdict is that of "Well, that's just how things are." again fine. You have no passion for the subject, that's fine... then move out of the way of people trying to change the way things are.
     

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