Anti Mosque Rally shows the true racist colors of these idiots

Nice post Qazi.....well said.

DD

 

Yeah, and that certainly didn't generate any outrage.

 

Germany was the motivation for the holocaust to the extent that the anti-Jewish sentiment became so strong because they were the Nazi's scapegoats for all of Germany's problems after World War I.

 

That was a rhetorical question.

Saying Germany inspired the Holocaust is like saying America inspired the slaughter of the Native Americans.

I think the answer you're looking for is something along the lines of "power, prejudice, etc" or any number of other vices or evils within men.

 

apples to oranges

 

You're missing the point.

The location of these atrocities didn't inspire them. That is merely coincidence.

You could say "nationalism" inspired it, if you really want to go so far as to say that the Nazis killed the Jews specifically and solely for the reason of making their country a better place.

As far as I can tell, the Nazis killed the Jews because of prejudice and pride.

No one got inspired, simply because they were German, to kill Jews.

 

the Holocaust was ordered by the German government and performed by German citizens, sympathizers, and allies

 

Based on this response, I'm guessing you don't understand the spirit of this discussion.

No one is debating who perpetrated or conceived of anything. That is very much evident. To argue that would be re-tard-ed.

The inspiration/motivation behind something is *different* from that.

This is not a question of 'who', but 'why'. And not even in the sense of "'why did German citizens participate in the holocaust'... 'because their government told them to!'"... more so what motivated the German government to persecute the Jews. Did they do it because they were inspired by Germany, or more because of pride/nationalism/prejudice? Think carefully about it. What is the *root* motivation/cause?

 

Isn't nationalism=doing things for your country and countrymen?

 

Yes... nationalism is essentially another form of PRIDE, but to say GERMANY inspired them, as in the country itself was the motivation, is just so beyond weird.

Who blames the country itself? Dang you Germany! If only all the Germans had gotten out of the Deutschland, none of this would've happened! Must be something in the water there. It's an evil place, where anybody who inhabits it will start committing genocide.

 

You're arguing two different things. One who is prejudiced can inherently have nationalistic feelings, but the vice versa isn't true unless taken to extremes.

Nationalism --
noun
patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
• an extreme form of this, esp. marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries.
• advocacy of political independence for a particular country : Palestinian nationalism.

Prejudice --
noun
1 preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience : English prejudice against foreigners | anti-Jewish prejudices. See note at bias .
• dislike, hostility, or unjust behavior formed on such a basis : accusations of racial prejudice.

 

so you're saying even if the Holocaust was perpetuated in the name of Germany or in the defense of Germany doesn't mean Germany inspired them

 

The holocaust was inspired by pride, hatred, lust for power, prejudice... not a flag or an anthem.

It may have been done under the banner/name of Germany, but that was pretty much coincidence. Not as if there's something inherently evil about Germany.

 

am I wrong when I said German's who ordered/committed/supported the Holocaust were nationalistic?

 

are you talking about pride for one's self or pride for one's country/race?

 

Pride in general.

 

can you remind me what we are debating? I originally said the Holocaust was perpetuated in the name of Germany/German government and it's people.

 

Apologies in advance for the following derail, but I didn't want to start a new thread. And this one seems strangely appropriate to post this in.

I think I finally get it. I think I finally get what Jeff and the rest have been talking about when they have occasionally deigned to bless us with their condescending messages about how stupid we all are for posting in here. Suddenly, about a week ago, it dawned on me: Oh my God, he's right. It was actually when he started that idiotic thread recently comparing me and basso (which is something akin to comparing Louis Black and David Duke). It made me think, what's the point of this stupid forum? I mean, especially being unmoderated, as it is. It was kind of like the first time I was at a bar late at night after I'd quit drinking and realized for the first time how stupid drunk people are, once I finally wasn't one. Quitting drinking was easy then. I expect quitting the D&D will be too. Every time I've peeked in here over the last week, I've almost barfed from all the dumbassery. I'll be glad not to be a contributor to it anymore.

I'm certainly stupid enough to come back, but I'm out for now.

"Champagne for my real friends and real pain for my sham friends."

Maybe I'll see you around.

/end derail.

 

Holocaust was driven by the Nazis and the extermination program, if not the overall persecution, was kept largely secret from the German population if I recall correctly.

A distinction must be made between the German people and the Nazi regime that cornered them. While the two overlap, the two are not exact, and it can be argued that the German people were yet another set of victims of the most terrible regime there was.

-There were riots/protests from Catholic regions when the extent of euthanasia was revealed, which led to the Nazis to tread carefully, and may have lead to the decision to place the extermination camps largely outside of Germany.
-The German aristocracy and some military elements tried to assassinate Hitler repeatedly when the extent of his crimes were revealed. Of course, this may have also been a response to his disastrous Operation Barbarossa, but there was always latent resistance even within the highest circles of German society. Valkyrie was only one of several attempts to depose of the Nazi leadership from within Germany.
-Even though the Nazis were elected democratically (under desperate circumstances perpetrated by the Western Powers one might add), they pretty much went totalitarian immediately, and offered German civilians little choice. There could have been no alternative government or freedom of expression; in essence the Nazis hijacked Germany. Of course, once things were going well, nobody much resisted. But recall such movements as the White Rose and brave heroes like Sophie, Hans Scholl, Oscar Schindler, etc. who even in a brutal atmosphere none of us could ever comprehend, still shed light on internal resistance against a cruel regime.

There's always this thought process that says ALL of X people are responsible for all of X governments' cruelties, which is lamentable. It is also the same thread of thought that pushes through Al-Q (ex: All Americans are responsible for Mogadishu/Cambodia/Afghanistan/Iraq etc. because they are a democracy, so ALL Americans must suffer).

I think of a mosque being built and the furor over it just being an extension of this thought process of assigning responsibility to massive groups, an animal-like "Us vs Them". Which is just sad. It's the 21st century. I hope that most people are better then that.

Honestly makes me think of the Goebbels children, while we're on the Nazi comparison. There still is an uproar over a shrine being built in their honor because they're part of the "Them" group. Germans. But listen to their story.

Think too of the victims of Dresden and the child soldiers of Berlin. Did they deserve their fates of their "Them" status?

 

No, you still don't get it.