Anti Mosque Rally shows the true racist colors of these idiots

That is exactly Major's point lol.

 

What if a Muslim American does not give a damn about Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan or Iraq?

What if he/she does as much about those places as you do? Do they bear more responsibility than you?

That's a very ignorant comment to make IMO. It isolates American Muslims in a non-American light.

 

yeah its so dumb you can't answer it straight up

 

That's a r****ded statement. Muslims in general show that the terrorists don't speak for Islam by living their daily lives as instructed by their Prophet and practicing their religion. There are more than a billion and a half Muslims comprising nearly a quarter of the people of the Earth. Like all religions Islam is a living concept with millions (or in this case) billions of adherents practicing their faith individually.

It's like saying "If Christians want to show that Catholic priests molesting children doesn't speak for Christianity they can start by doing something by storming the Vatican and St Patrick's Cathedral." Until then we'll logically proceed with the assumption that Christianity is about molesting kids."

Using that same rhetorical invictive, can you say with a straight face that Israeli settlers spray painting "Palestinians to the gas chambers" on Arab businesses in the West Bank "defines" Judaism? Do you think widespread cases of gay men who happen to also be priests repeatedly violating children defines homosexuality? Do you think Tiger Woods' infidelity "defines" how a black man is going to treat your daughter in a sexual relationship? If you made these types of statements about anyone but Muslims you would be a bigot.

We impose a definition onto someone using our own political agenda, then in order to "prove" to us that they are not what we say they are we demand they take a course of action that suits us specifically to disprove an assumption that we started with. This seems logical to you?

I actually honestly dont really care too much about the bigoted stereotypes people have about each other... people today are stupid if they weren't foaming at the mouth at muslims we'd be scapegoating "chinks" from China or some other group for all the problems in the world. Ignorant people can hold whatever opinions they want. The problem is that the original articulated point isn't useful AT ALL politically for US interests in resolving **** in the Middle East. How is it going to help if you basically prove to the world that their assumptions about the US being a bunch of bigots or Zionists is true? And at the same time flush our own heritage of religious rights down the toilet?

Yeah but certain sects like Shia or Sunni is basically like being Jewish. It's a combination of faith, ethnicity, culture and heredity. Using the old definitions it's more of a "race" (one people) than being white or black which today are about genetic makeup but is not supposed to define who you are.

 

That's purely speculation regarding opposition. If I'd known about it in the planning phases I would have opposed it right away. I don't even know who broke the story, don't really care.

So you may very well be the person that scratched my car last week since there are similar amounts of evidence for you as there is anyone else. What a cool Rumsfeld'esque argument you've made there. Nifty.

So who is funding the mosque? Or are you going to stick with your Jesus argument?

So people are flying into New York to protest? If they want to have it then it's their decision. I've already said that.

Oh noooo, there are people that don't share my opinion on the matter? Obviously I must revisit my opinion so that it can be neatly categorized for your future postings.

 

I'm not worried about the funding. I want to know where the funding is coming from. Do you know who is funding it?

Spare me your trickle down terrorist support argument. I buy gas therefore I support terrorism. Whatever dude.

That's your political interpretation because you don't believe in American exceptionalism. You think we have to acquiesce to Muslims on this issue in order to demonstrate we accept them as equals and I'm saying the very fact that people are supporting and opposing that mosque in a public discourse is very evidence that Americans accept them as equals. That's what America is about, the right to disagree and voice that opinion. America isn't about kissing people's asses to make them feel better about themselves. Muslims in America have more freedom, more rights, and more opportunities than Muslims in any country on Earth. That speaks for itself.

Against the spirit of freedom of religion? LOL Whatever man. You'll have to explain how the freedom of religion allows people to build things without opposition. I don't think you really get that one there chief.

You're going to make me cry. Since it sounds like you've never actually read the Constitution, I'll post the relevant parts here and you explain to me which rights or what spirits of what rights I have violated by opposing the building of this mosque. Thanks.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

 

I'm going to answer this by letting you in on a little secret. This technique of yours actually has a name. You take an issue and present a question with false choices in order to argue against a position that a poster doesn't actually hold. I laugh when you do it to giddy all the time but seriously, nah. Thanks.

False Dilemma / Bifurcation Fallacy

The bifurcation fallacy is committed when a false dilemma is presented, i.e. when someone is asked to choose between two options when there is at least one other option available. Of course, arguments that restrict the options to more than two but less than there really are are similarly fallacious.

 

That's working out pretty well. I didn't even bring this subject up. Sweet Lou is the one that said this community center shows the terrorists that they don't speak for Islam... like Bin Laden is really stressing about what they're doing at the NYC Islamic community center. You two guys can go argue about the role of the every day Muslim in rehabilitating Islam's image in the world.

 

If someone were making a mockery of my religion then I'd be concerned about who's doing it. It's a natural inclination to defend your beliefs from those who abuse or misuse them.

Yes, Muslims bear more responsibility for what happens in Islam than someone who is not a Muslim. What kind of looney question is that? Do you think Catholics don't bear more responsibility for what the Pope does than non-Catholics? What the hell? Now you want to mix religion and nationality as a defense for not being responsible for the groups you adhere or belong to? WTF? You're like going down the same crybaby path as Sweet Lou.

 

I'm a Muslim and I can't do **** about oil-rich monarchs. What should I do?

In fact, if I thought the way you do, I would say you bear far more responsibility as an American for what happens in the Muslims world because you are funding the people causing these problems by being the highest oil-consumer in the world and maintaining friendships with the peopel who supply you.

Your theory is idiotic. Islam is not a country and it's not a nationality. It is none of your business what goes on between a person and what he/she believes is his/her creator.

No American Muslim has any obligation to go out and fight other Muslim ideologies in the world any more than you do.

I don't hold ANYONE but the Pope responsible for what the Pope does. That is unless you are democratically voting the Pope into office or have some control over what he does or if forced to do what he says.

It's unrelated. If you are waiting for Muslims to go against the very monarchs you are injecting with cash, I promise you will wait forever. I, for one, being part Arab do not take any responsibility whatsoever for anything done in the name of Islam. I take responsibility for myself and, if for some odd reason, there are people I am responsible for.

If you think my struggle against wahhabi ideology is a DUTY, you are a freaking moron. I don't come fighting YOU everytime Israel slaughters the good name of freedom and democracy in Israel. Anything you would do in that regard is appreciated, but certainly, it's not your freaking duty.

I can't believe you have the nerve to sit here and say that we bear some responsibility because some IDIOT in some part of the world decided that he is doing things in the name of Islam.

Well fuggit. I won't call it Islam anymore, and I won't call myself a Muslim anymore. But I will not change my beliefs or ideology one bit. Would that suit you better? Do you understand that I don't share ANYTHING with those people except the media spotlight?

I'm just so furious with your mentality. It's beyond ridiculous. Instead of wasting your time here, why don't you go get all the Germans and ship them to Israel where they can apologize forever? OFCOURSE it's their responsibility. In this case, you cn even say it's a RACE AND A COUNTRY.

Can't believe this. Jeez.

 

When you are done with your stupid rant, Mathloom:

Yes, you do bear more of a responsibility to weed out militant crazies from your religion than non-Muslims do.

 

Who should be responsible for weeding out the KKK and such?

 

I feel so much better now that we have a diagnosis: Bifurcation Syndrome (B.S.). I'll stop thinking ill of him when he does this now that I know he's sick. :grin:

 

Why don't you care who funds Fox News then? You're a hypocrite. You are also a moron because the same dude who owns Fox with Murdoch is one of the guys who is funding it - the same guy who Guiliani rejected money from for his campaign. So he's a terrorist in your eyes, but it's ok for him to own your precious news source?

I never questioned your rights, only pointed out that you can't say we are a beacon of freedom when you don't support the spirit of the constitution. You don't know crap about what I believe.

Hypocrite!

You have no clue what America is about. They aren't Muslims from another country no more than you are a Christian from Europe you dumbass. They are just as America as you are, and they get equal treatment and rights just for that.

If you don't understand that, you need to read up on the history of this country and not just what Glen Beck.

You are probably one of the 20% who think Obama is secretly a Muslim.

YOu keep contradicting yourself and applying double standards. You are one lost soul my fellow American. I suggest you really think about what your values are.

And maybe go out there and try to go after the bigots in your religion instead of attacking others. Oh wait - you are one of the bigots!

 

Thomas Friedman wrote an article stating this argument in December 2009. It was a NY Times Op-ed entitled "www.jihad.com"

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/opinion/16friedman.html

Zaid Shakir, a prominent Islamic Scholar, wrote a response at the following link:

http://www.newislamicdirections.com/nid/articles/thomas_friedman_prisoner_in_a_glass_house/

I sense you'll agree more with Friedman, but they are both good reads nonetheless.

 

Where is the other option, the one that you believe should be included?

 

OBL & Al Queda were not directly responsible for 911?

you're really struggling with this

ok then. what do you believe was directly responsible for 911?

 

How do you propose that Muslims do that? Not only is there no all-encompassing Muslim religious hierarchy, but it's a very splintered religion. How would a Sufi in North America weed out Wahabbists in Saudi Arabia?

 

You do understand that like Christianity there are different denominations of Islam. Iman Rauf is a Sufi and not a Sunni Wahabist like Bin Ladin and those who carried out 9/11?

Anyway as I noted earlier Iman Rauf is actively speaking out terrorism and trying to foster good will about the US among Muslims in the Middle East.

 

Dear Rest-of-America: Take This Map, It's Why You're Wrong About the "Ground Zero Mosque"

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http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/08/dear_rest-of-am.php