Anti-Gay Pastor Allegedly Propositions Male Officer

We can never determine why a tragedy happened. Some may say that it happened because of some immoral behavior. God doesn't tell us. We can try to specualte but we will never know for sure. The bible is clear that death, tragedy is the result of sin, rebellion against God.

 

I rephrase my response. Since there has been mankind, there has been death and sin. I never said I was there at the beginning but I did state that no one could answer the question.

 

That's alright. I'm not trying to change your belief at all. Seriously if you would want to talk later after this thread dies I would be happy to. I believe that science does not have all the answers and that it is limited especially concerning the past. Science cannot know for sure.

 

Show me where it says that tragedy is a result of sin? I can understand why you say death (even though I disagree) but not tragedy.

 

rocketstrike, I appreciate the time you're taking to engage in the friendly debate with other posters, but you and I both know that nobody will be swayed in their beliefs.

I always find it so interesting how 'Christians' are lambasted for various hypocrisies.

First of all, ANYONE can 'claim' to be a Christian. Just like ANYONE can 'claim' to be a true MUSLIM.

But it's not fair to assign sweeping generalizations about 'arrogance' and 'hypocrisy' to Christians unless one also plans to do that to followers of Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and other religions.

It's always funny to see the grief Christians take from people in the States. I think it's partly because we're 'desensitized' to it in the sense that we've all grown up around various Christian religions and see it on t.v. on Sundays, etc...

In other words, it's "known" to us. It's familiar, so we crack on what we feel like we can speak somewhat intelligently about.

To be consistent, I'm also offended when people take isolated acts by people 'prophesing' to be Muslim and paint with broad strokes about all that believe.

At the end of the day, nothing good comes from sweeping generalizations, whether it be about Christianity, Islam, or any other faith.

As a matter of fact, it reeks of small-mindedness and myopia.

 

I never stated that science had all of the answers and even if it did I couldn't comprehend them all. I just said that the story of creation was created (pun? maybe, maybe no) for a time where they couldn't understand the concepts.

 

But we do have the answer: the Bible and yes I do have to take it on faith.

 

I just think sometimes we assume that people way back then didn't know science and natural explanations. Perhaps they where smarter than we give them credit for.

 

I think we're having a cool conversation and the best part about it is that we're trying to respect each other.

 

My statements of hypocracy against Christians are from my own experiences. It isn't like I went to church once in my life and didn't like it. I grew up in a family where my granddad was a Baptist minister for over 60 years. I went to a private Christian school until 4th grade and attended church regularly until I was an adult. I've been on mission trips and witnessed to many a people. I do not doubt my Christianity for a second. I doubt religion, which is man made. What I doubt from growing up isnt the message but more of the delivery. I'd love to see a fresh approach to religion.

 

Yes, delivery is something I need to do better on as well as other Christians.

 

Well I gotta go. I appreciate the coversations with everyone and I just want everyone to know that I was not trying to offend anyone at all, but trying to explain my beliefs and defend my position.
God's peace to you all.

 

They were far from dumb, just ignorant. They thought that the world was flat and everything revolved around us but they were able to create the Pyramids. Something that we cannot replicate today even with our technology. It was a story for a different time and a different people. I do not think that there is anything wrong with that and like I said I do not think it takes away from what the story is trying to explain.

I do think that people today (including myself) just do not take everything at face value. "Well my daddy said that it was the truth so it are." That kind of philosophy doesn't cut it anymore. There is too much information out there. Faith is great and essential to Christianity. Its what we base our entire existance on. That doesn't mean that for every difficult question we say that we base our answer on faith. I never read anywhere in the Bible where it says to not question or seek out the truth.

I also feel that religions are scared to admit that some of the OT doesnt make sense literally because of the backlash from non-Christians (and Christians as well) that everything in the Bible is true. It isn't saying that the Bible is flawed because I do not believe it is. It is saying, these are stories that try to explain God to people (even people today) that cannot understand Him. We (people) will never be able to fully comprehend God ever. I read that in the Bible

 

I appreciated the respectful debate. I'd make my way into the D&D more often if there were more posters like you. Its great to disagree and discuss a topic without being told that you are a moron and that you have been owned

 

Ok., one last post. I would go to D and D more too if it weren't so negative and childish sometimes. I hope we can talk later sometime...about anything.

 

Anytime

 

'Gays are evil, also in case you were wondering I am not gay... I swear.'

 

Paging Sir Jackie Childs...

 

I don't want to speak for rocketstrike, but I believe he/she is just having trouble spelling out the belief system they hold to because of a lack of Biblical basis. Hopefully some of this can help...


Q: How did/does sin cause disease and/or Death (both first death, and seperation from God, or second death)? How can you say that? I feel sorry for you!

-this was spoken by God to Adam and Eve. As many of you know, and can be read in the book of Genesis, Eve was tempted by the serpent (Satan-meaning "adversary") and yielded to the temptation and ate the fruit of the tree, and subsequently influenced Adam to do likewise... comitting original human sin. Now, the responsibility was Adam's, not Eve's, and since he did it as well, he introduced physical death, sickness, hardships such as pain during childbirth, etc... as well as a seperation from God (physically from the Garden of Eden at the time, and spiritually thus causing the need for God's Son Jesus to be sent as the bridge back to right relationship between God and man, as man was created to fellowship with God.)

Original human sin resulted in the introduction of death, disease, sickness, hardship into the human family.

Now then, it is true that death has two meanings as I eluded to. This is the reason knowing and accepting Jesus is so imperative, as it is the measure by which God Himself afforded us a way back to Him (by way of belief in His Son's death and resurrection).

The "once" referred to here is the physical death introduced by Adam's fall. But notice God intended still that it would be the only death mankind was appointed to (once)... the judgement then (His judgement alone) is where the individual stands and gives account of what he/she did with the knowledge of Christ... did they live accordingly, by the Grace of God, or did they reject what they knew, and shun God's Grace and Mercy?

The "second death" is actually the final separation from God... created in fact for Lucifer (after his fall due to his pride -THE original sin, as he made himself to be higher than God in his own mind, and was cast out of Heaven to forever be seperated from God, and now be the permanent "Adversary" more widely known as "Satan") and his fallen angels (1/3 of the angels of Heaven were decieved by him before he was cast out of Heaven to earth -that's how he was already in the Garden of Eden... that's who the "pre-Adamites" were for the scholars out there... but that's another debate).

The second death, and the first death are what is reffered to in Romans...

So then death, physically, and spiritually through eternal separation from God is due to, the result of, the wages (the pay for) sin... But don't overlook the Gospel there (the Good News).

With Christmas (celebrated) just past us we can look to the first night of Christ's arrival on earth to see why God sent him...

God was not mad enough at mankind to not offer a way of redemption for Adam's choices. God knew it would not be fair to leave all of mankind responsible for anyone's actions other than their own.

This is the "free will" we often talk of. God gave all of mankind a chance to get back to the right standing they once held in the Garden when God Himself came in the cool of the day to walk and talk with Adam and Eve...

Now... one of the things Jesus did when He died was to even present Himself to those that had died before He came still believing that God would send that way back to right standing, the Messiah... As written by Paul the Apostle...

By "lower parts of the earth" he (Paul) not only was writing that Jesus faced the humiliation in descending from heaven to earth, but the words more naturally mean his descent into Hades (Greek for "Hell"), or the world of spirits, which is mentioned as the extreme of his humiliation.

In fact, many of the saints that believed on Jesus as Messiah when He presented Himself were also resurrected when Jesus resurrected Himself...

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So anyway. I think that the sin of this pastor is very reprehensible. In this life he should, and will face all of the consequences he's got coming (it's God's law of sowing and reaping ).

I pray that he repents and finds the right standing with God he needs before Christ's return. It look slike he's already got, ironically, the ACLU defending him, so he should do alright... except that some are just salivating to nail a Christian to the wall I'm sure. Like I said, what he has coming he'll get.

Is that too judgemental? No. I believe it lines up with scripture. The time for restoration is after the fact (see below, more of Galatians 6).

Hopefully he'll remember this one... And I'm praying he will.

And Christians elsewhere should read on up on this chapter, before passing too harsh a sentence...

The question is: How spiritually minded are most that claim Christianity? Several even on this board seem to lack a basic understanding, and sometimes lack even a reverence for what Scripture states... this is doctrine (teaching) basic to Christianity. We (for the most part) beleive the Scriptures to be the final say, or judge. Since Jesus is the Word made flesh (Gospel of John), and we are to be like Him... what do we say to the world when we discount our very foundation of belief?

While it is true that hypocrisy is equally sin.. all who commit sin (of any sort, sin=sin), while in this dispensation of Grace, have a way back to God.

BTW- Thanks for the civility in this thread! It is much appreciated.

 

What about death in every living thing... did sin create those deaths also?

Plants live and then die. Plants get diseases and die. How did the plants sin.

What did the plants do against god for him to forsake them all?

What about the animals? What sin did they all commit to deserve disease and death?

Eve took one bite from an apple after be entraped by a serpent and now every living thing must die?

Heck I'd think a good lawyer could have gotten Eve off by arguing entrapment or temporay insanity... I mean talking snakes sound to me like either entrapment or insanity.

One little bite and every living plant, animal and human on the face of the earth, throughout all of time has to suffer disease and death.

I do love a good old testament vengful god.