<i>Good points aelliott, but I have a problem with your ppg stat comparison. I don't know how many minutes Yao played per a game, but I do know that with the U.S., players were rotated in much more often so obviously one player won't average 30 ppg even though any one of them could have. China didn't have as much talent level obviously, so if you could find out how many minutes Yao played that would help. </i> Yes, the US had many more talented players than China. Now, who do you think it is easier to shut down defensively? A guy on a team that is surrounded by inferior players or a player that is surrounded by NBA elite? The page that I pulled those numbers from didn't show minutes per game, sorry. It doesn't really matter to me. Vince Carter was the leading US scorer and 3rd leading scorer overall at Sydney. I believe that Andrew Gaze was the leading scorer in the Sydney Games. Nobody scored much. Most of the foreign-born NBA players were there and they scored less than Yao. <i>Also, I agree that his ability to make jumpshots to pull out centers will help greatly, but we still need inside toughness. He doesn't have an inside game as of now. That is one of his biggest faults. If he can't bang down low offensively, how will he defensively. Don't just point at his legs and say that'll will help him keep position.</i> Why is it so hard to believe that a very athletic 300lb player could add strength and develop a better low post game? He won't do it next year, but that doesn't matter. I guess my question would be, if we don't draft Yao, then where do you intend to get your low post scoring from? To me it looks like our options are to either take a guy that has potential to bulk up to be able to play in the post or hope that a post up player falls in our laps in the future. <i>The game is much more physical and even if he can help on the offense, his one-on-one defense will be a liability. He will help with weak-side shot blocking, but we still need a consistent inside presence to clog up the lane on the defensive end. Agree???</i> Let's think about who he'll be unable to play low post defense against. Ok, there's Shaq...and...and...ok, I'm done. Got any more good low post centers? So, if he can contribute weak-side shot blocking, then we'll be fine.
Its hard to pass on a very big skillful player with good atheleticism. I mean, Tony Battie was as or more atheletic than Tim Duncan, but look at him. The argument could be said that Duncan isn't that atheletic but is very polished which is why he's so far ahead of the Tony Battie's and Rasheed Wallace's. I mean he's not just 7'0, he's 7'5 300lbs! I don't want to run down the list of players in the west he can just tower over or are just more skillful than at the center spot. One of the comments about him is some nights he'll make your jaw drop and some nights he'll look like a rookie. Ok, I'm fine with that because even Gasol was like that. I mean a big skillful center in this age is very,very rare. Name me someone other than shaq and duncan who are pretty much centers that are skillful. You really can't and there lies the advantage for ming. Sometimes when posters go on these tangets about why not to choose him , i look at his competition in the west and think. SA-Robinson- On his last legs. Still effective at times, but very much on his downside. Dallas-La Frentz- Has to be the softest center ever. Not strong enough to play center, not quick enough to 4. Vlade really made him look bad. Denver-?- enough said Utah-Collins or Ostertag- Neither is skillful. Ostertag is a good shotblocker when he wants to be, but thats not often. Memphis-Wright- Can be a good rebounder when on the court which seems to be not to often. Atheletic player with very limited range and is undersized. Lakers-Shaq- No explaination needed Sac-Vlade- getting old, but is still savvy. Flops a lot, but is not that quick. Phoe-Tsakalidas- Big ,Immobile and very limited. Still very raw Seattle-James or baker- James is improving and very big while Baker is still overweight and undersized. Clipps-Kandi- Improving, is big very limited and had his best yr at 9pts while shooting 43%. GSW- Dampier or Foyle- No skill in either one on the offensive end. Dampier can't catch a cold and Foyle can't score on grand mama Portl-Dale Davis-Very strong while being 6'10. Offensive game not past 10ft. Very rugged and good rebounder. Getting old. These are the players he will see 52 times a yr. Other than Shaq and maybe Vlade and a healthy David are we not going to say he wouldn't be a mismatch against those other teams. Going into most nights with ming, you know you have an advantage because he's either bigger and or sometimes quicker than the guy holding him. He can start your offense easily at the mid post which cuts down on to's and gives the guards who really don't want to handle the ball a chance to score. On defense, he'll have some problems, but in most cases the centers he's facing can't score anyway. if he just hangs around the shoeblocks and get ready to help, it instantly makes us better defensively. The other thing worth noting, Cato can come in for his 12-15 minutes and play hard and not worry about fouling. He played reckless and harder the first yr we got him. He would come in play hard for the limited time and sit down. Last yr he paced himself alot because more times than not, if he goes out, there was no one behind him. He's really a bench player and thats pretty much where he needs to be. To me, it just makes all the sense in the world.
aelliott- Let's think about who he'll be unable to play low post defense against. Ok, there's Shaq...and...and...ok, I'm done. Ok, I'm not sure how you know he'll be able to play low post defense against Tim Duncan, KG, Rasheed, CWebb,Brand, etc. You say it with such certainty, yet where have you seen Yao play?Some CBA games? Any NBA level competition? I'm not saying he will never be able to, but you say it like it's a sure thing
At his best, I think Ming will be a 15pt, 10 rebound guy. That is pretty good for a center, but not for a center who is going to be the #1. Maybe we Ming "hatas" are being too negative and not giving Ming a chance, but I think the main reason we are not on the Ming band wagon yet is because we see the whole picture. We have the #1 pick and there isn't a guy like Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, or Duncan. Guys who avg over 20 pts and 10 boards for their careers. Ming won't be able to do that. And I don't want to here that it isn't fair to compare him to those guys because they are top 50 of all time. Well let's see, Dream, Shaq, Ewing, and Robinson are all centers, they were all saviors of their respective teams, and. . . umm. . . oh yeah, they were FREAKING #1 OVERALL DRAFT PICKS!!! Let's see, Ming is a center, he's supposed to save our franchise, and ummm yep that's right kids, he's going to be the #1 overall draft pick. I have every right to compare him to those guys because if he goes #1, then he damn well better produce like them. And don't tell me that I'm only speculating that Ming will be a bust because there is more evidence saying he will be a mistake than there is saying he will succeed at this level. Let's look at the freakishly tall centers that have been in the league: Bradley, Manute, Muresan, Smits, Ilgaulskus, and Sampson. Not a single ring on any of their fingers. And the guys that Ming is compared to when it comes to his shooting ability Smits and Ilgaulskus had and have chronic foot problems because of the stress they put on their feet. The team doctor can't even examine Ming, how do we know he is not going to have the same problems in a few years? I know the center position is weak now, but that doesn't mean we should settle for somebody just because he's better than Cato. I'm not against having Ming on this team, but not at #1. We should squeeze all the value we can out of this pick.
<i>Ok, I'm not sure how you know he'll be able to play low post defense against Tim Duncan, KG, Rasheed, CWebb,Brand, etc. You say it with such certainty, yet where have you seen Yao play?Some CBA games? Any NBA level competition? I'm not saying he will never be able to, but you say it like it's a sure thing</i> Yao will play center, those guys play PF. If you truely believe that Yao is going to be an awful defender, then why would you go out of your way to play him out of position and match him up with a PF? Is your point that you could manufacture a situation where he might have trouble defending? If he ends up being a poor defender, do you think that we would put him in that position? Now, lets go back to the alternatives. We don't draft Yao, then who's playing low post defense for us? Even if you trade the pick, your still giving up #1 value, so you've got to get the same in return. Who's the great low post defender we get in the draft or via a trade? You are arguing that Yao is a bad choice, but you aren't offering a better solution. Tell me a realistic trade scenario that fills more holes and is any surer than drafting Yao.
None of these guys are built like Ming. That would be similar to pointing to Tim Hardaway, Khalid El-Amin, et al, and saying all under 6ft point guards are gonna be pudgy, and ignoring whether or not they're actually built like Hardaway and El-Amin.
Look guys I have a question, Was Ming a gollie in Scocer? And look guys you are all too negative for your own good, we were haned the first pick in the NBA draft, thats like gold this year, We just cant throw it away for the Clippers pot smoker, and thier poor excuse for a #1 pick, heck guys thats not even worth Cat, and he wasnt even taken in the first round. You guys lack a vision, plain and simple, And without a vison The Rockets perish. 2 Joshua 1:1 Im just a young guy, but this man holds the key for us... and yall's arguement that he has no post game,,,,neither do any of the other Rockets,....Yall praise Eddie, but Eddie isnt an inside threat...hes a stick man too...please dont get me wrong all you pro mingers (Im one too) Im not dissing Eddie Im trying to make a point. We all say Eddie will improve his post moves, but Ming cant and Ming is 7'5" and huge...Eddie is 6'9" and skinny...please keep an open Ming,,,I mean mind
That still doesn't convince me that he isn't going to have brittle feet after he goes through the rigors of an NBA season. Not to mention this guy will be playing all year round and I doubt he will bounce back the way Steve Nash does. And as for a better scenario, I don't see how getting Odom, Kandi wouldn't be a better deal. Kandi might not be as good as Ming, but he's better than Cato. And Odom has already shown he can succeed in this league. He scores, he passes, he rebounds. Those are all areas we need help in and Odom puts up good numbers in all those areas. Not to mention Griffin will be our starting 4 by the allstar break this season. And if we have the 8th pick, we will still get a quality player from the draft. If we take Ming we get a good center and we will still have a hole at the 3.
<i>At his best, I think Ming will be a 15pt, 10 rebound guy. That is pretty good for a center, but not for a center who is going to be the #1. Maybe we Ming "hatas" are being too negative and not giving Ming a chance, but I think the main reason we are not on the Ming band wagon yet is because we see the whole picture. We have the #1 pick and there isn't a guy like Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, or Duncan. Guys who avg over 20 pts and 10 boards for their careers. Ming won't be able to do that. And I don't want to here that it isn't fair to compare him to those guys because they are top 50 of all time. Well let's see, Dream, Shaq, Ewing, and Robinson are all centers, they were all saviors of their respective teams, and. . . umm. . . oh yeah, they were FREAKING #1 OVERALL DRAFT PICKS!!! Let's see, Ming is a center, he's supposed to save our franchise, and ummm yep that's right kids, he's going to be the #1 overall draft pick.</i> Ok, you got us. There's a good chance that Yao won't be another Olajuwon. So, since there isn't an Olajuwon in the draft and Shaq is the only other center in the entire league that is at that level, then what do you propose we do with that pick? Pick somebody else? Can't do that, they won't be an Olajuwon or Duncan, so that would make them a bust at #1. Do we trade the pick? Nope, can't do that because that pick is obviously worth an Olajuwon caliber player and a trade won't get us one of those. What can we do? <i> And don't tell me that I'm only speculating that Ming will be a bust because there is more evidence saying he will be a mistake than there is saying he will succeed at this level. </i> What evidence would that be? Every NBA coach/GM/scout that has been quoted about Yao, has said he could play. Show me where somebody said he's going to be a bust. I can show you tons of quotes that say he'll be very good to great. <i>Bradley, Manute, Muresan, Smits, Ilgaulskus, and Sampson. Not a single ring on any of their fingers. And the guys that Ming is compared to when it comes to his shooting ability Smits and Ilgaulskus had and have chronic foot problems because of the stress they put on their feet.</i> So, since the 4 or 5 previous tall guys didn't win a ring, then obviously all guys that size won't win? Let's see, prior to Shaq, all 7' 300 lb centers were big oafs like James Donaldson, Mark Eaton and Tom Borwinkle. Would you have advised Orlando to pass on Shaq? Did you ever see a 6'9" point guard before Magic? No guard had ever jumped from high school to the pros before Kobe. Were the Lakers foolish to draft him? <i>And the guys that Ming is compared to when it comes to his shooting ability Smits and Ilgaulskus had and have chronic foot problems because of the stress they put on their feet</i> So, Smits and Ilgaulskus had foot problems, so of course, all tall guys have foot problems? Mugsy Bogues had a chronic knee problem, do you think that was because he was short? What foot problems has Shawn Bradley had? <i>The team doctor can't even examine Ming, how do we know he is not going to have the same problems in a few years? </i> It's being reported that the Rockets are sending people to China this week. Isn't it conceivable that they'll get a medical exam as well as a workout?
Smits and Ilgaulskus don't have foot problems out of coincidence, it's because they are huge and their feet can't take the stress that athlete's put on their feet and legs.
One aspect of Ming's defense that scares me is his defense. We already know that his upper body strength is lacking, which will hurt his defensive capabilities. He might be able to shotblock, but his man to man defense is the key. Defense is what we need, and we need it this offseason.
Rocketblast, Quick!! Name 3 NBA offenses that use a starting center for more than 15 shots per game? We need to stop the stud PFs. Griffin needs to bulk up more than Ming, and Ming can step in immediately and help Griffin stop PFs. Odom cannot help Griffin at all, and Cato is not fundamentally sound enough to do help defense very well.
Well that's saying a lot. Yeh lets make the same mistake twice. He has also shown that smoking pot is more important to him than being there for his team. You are not convinced Ming can make it through the year without injuries but Odom can? How many games did Odom play last year? Been talking to Miss Cleo again huh? You mean a player like Sagona Diop, Jamal crawford, Johnathan Bender, Larry Hughes, Adonal Foyle, Kerry Kittles and Shawn Respert? These are players that were selected at the #8 spot in the last 7 drafts. Proof the further down the lottery you go the bigger the gamble. In other words your gauranteed to get a quality player at the #8 spot. There are many SF's out there. This has been brought up in many threads. Here's one for you. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34806 Now enough of this Clipper talk. Unless were talking Brand.
Aelliot you’re wasting your time arguing with these people. They never have any facts to back up anything they say. Its same old S Bradley, he's too tall he'll get injured, he can't bang with Shaq crap. They just don't get it!!
