Maybe, more of us should consider living out in the middle of nowhere with lots of trees and squirrels.... Seriously, I'm disgusted with these "association" stories! I live in Spring, not far from Champions and I currently rent my home. We will be in the market for a home soon and if I was not a family guy and it was just me, i would seriously consider getting a plot of land out in Conroe away from everybody and build a Jim Walter home or something and paint it whatever color I can think of, have a pretty weed garden, and double digit squirrels running around! ------------------ It's my way or the highway!
Right out of the book I'm reading now-House of Sand and Fog. HEB, you don't think your examples are in the extreme? ------------------ www.swirve.com "Pre-born, you're fine, pre-school, you're f*****."-George Carlin
Here is a link to a story in todays Chronicle: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/page1/897924 ------------------ ~John~ Help keep the obsessed thread alive post the reasons why you are an obsessed Rockets fan by clicking here
This is one of the few times I agree with Paul Bettencourt when he said "It was an unconscionably stupid thing to do," said Bettencourt, adding that foreclosure should be used only as a last resort. "They kicked an 82-year-old woman out of her home over 800 bucks, which is absolutely asinine," he said. Of course, Bettencourt is wrong on part of the facts here. They didn't kick her out of her home over $800. They kicked her out of her home over $14.50 (she owned $814.50, and she attempted to pay $800, so the amount in dispute that caused her to lose her home was $14.50). ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com
I can tell you HOA do have their purposes. I know in my sub-division when you purchasre the house you sign the contract that says the rules about 1. No RVs or boats in the road or blocking the sidewalk 2. Keep cars off of walkways, so people with strollers can walk without many problems. 3. Keep your yard neat (nothing I hate more than a lazy neighbor) 4. No satellite dishes attached to the house (not sure why) 5. Only wood fences and no higher than 3 foot tall. Now some of the rules don't make sense to me either (satellite dish) but hey I signed the contract. In general the rules are for a purpose and if you don't like the rules you don't have to live there. What they did the lil old lady is wrong, but I do find it odd about how she did answer the door for the press and not the HOA. Regardless it is a bad situation, but a lil suspicious.
Define "neat". Most neighborhoods require that you maintain a lawn. What if you don't want a lawn but prefer a garden in your front yard? Again, this is just about limiting your choices. ------------------ So, I took the million dollars and bought a steam shovel...
Hard to believe the HOA would make you sign something that violates Federal Law (the Telecommunications Act of 1996 prevents governmental and nongovernmental restrictions on the installation, maintenence, use, etc. of satellite dishes less than one meter in diameter). ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com
Yes, but in most HOA restrictions, YOU are required to pay all of their legal fees if they must take you to court. Where else is that the case? Nearly every lawsuit is required to pass the "reasonable" test. Is what they did reasonable under the law? It doesn't matter if it was perfetly legal. What matters is how the law is applied and if it goes beyond what the court considers reasonable behavior. This would seem to not satisfy that test. The irony is that this little lady could be the cause of serious legislative reform HOA's. It's one thing to enforce the rules on a guy with parts all over his yard or a giant boat in the street. It is another thing altogether to toss an 82-year-old woman out onto the street for a little over 800 bucks. Instead of leaving her alone, they may have inadvertantly created the test case for reform of HOA's and deed restrictions. Ah, the irony. ------------------ So, I took the million dollars and bought a steam shovel...
when you move in read the deed restrictions and you would see that the rules are there for the overall benefit of the neighborhood.. if you do not like them then you have the right as the purchaser to not buy the house.. pretty simple..if you are negligent enough to not read and/or not care then you must face the consequences accordingly.. i signed a club member ship to ballys then i moved...in the contract it said that if i was within 50 miles of a ballys then i couldnt break the agreement.. i was within 50 miles i hadnt read the contract and was my own negligence..so i was f*cked.. lesson learned: read the contract ------------------ "no matter how good she looks someone... somewhere..is tired of her sh*t"
I would say that the "whites only" deed restrictions that still exist today (even though they are unenforceable doesn't mean they aren't there) aren't there for the overall benefit of the neighborhood. For that matter, I wouldn't say that an approved list of colors or things like that make any neighborhood better to live in. Would my neighborhood really be better if people put satellite dishes in their yards rather than on their roofs? Would my neighborhood really be better off if people were required to park their cars in their garages rather than their driveways? How does any of that make a neighborhood any better overall? Again, though, we get back to two facts. 1) Vague language (what is a "neat" yard, for example), and 2) The fact that these rules can and do change over time, sometimes without the benefit of a majority of the residents approving them. I can't go back and unbuy my house when these rules change. Not to mention the illegal deed restrictions or home owner association rules that are in place, yet it may take a not insignificant legal action to exert the homeowner's legal rights. And the whole "You don't have to live there" is getting less and less true. As more and more of these HOAs pop up, there are fewer and fewer alternate places for people to live that aren't effected by these rules. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com
mrpaige, what does this racist example have to do w/ HOAs or neighborhood associations? HOAs don't sell homes, people sell homes. If those people use the MLS or any sort of printed news media they cannot discriminate against anyone based on the color of their skin. Basically, I have no idea what you're trying to argue on that one. It's just as easy for personx in bum**** to not sell to someone as it is for me in my condo. Who knows? Every area has a different aesthetic and these associations tend to assume that they know how to best influence their resale value. When you buy into the collective, you agree w/ them. mrpaige, you should check into your local laws and fill us back in on what the extent of restrictions on a homeowner can possibly be. It'd be great to find out what Texas law mandates as to an HOA changing one of its own laws. Not 'insignificant legal action'??? Huh? Someone isn't going to come and rip the satellite off of your house. They start a legal action against you. And the assumption that you and Jeff are going off of that you have to pay the HOA's legal fees is misleading at best. In any legal matter the plaintiff can recur their legal costs, if the judge finds for the plaintiff. God, call a ****ing waaaambulance. These things pop up b/c they're effective at reigning in crappy neighbors and keeping property values high. I'd like to reiterate what most of us have been saying... you buy what the deed says that you own. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. I can't put a horse in the middle of downtown Salt Lake, nor can I keep livestock. Wah wah... that's what farms are for. I can't keep a 50' Winnebago outside of my building, that's what those rv parking areas are for. I can't cut the railing off of my patio, so what? I can't hang up penthouse posters in the common area, so what? Nor can I masterbate in public, nor can I grow pot. Hell, I have to wear a fetchin' seat belt in my car. Poor me, my rights are totally being squashed. ------------------ women love me, fish fear me.
But the deed restriction is there. You people keep pointing out how the deed restrictions are all great and for the greater good of the neighborhood. I would say that some deed restrictions are not for the good of the neighborhood. I would say they pop up to urge conformity regardless of property values. And, in some cases, so the boards can exert unnecesary influence over neighbors who may or may not be a problem in regards to the property values of his neighbors. Again, I doubt property values are hampered by someone painting their trim a rose color. As for the satellite dish example. If I am confronted with the illegal request to remove my satellite and the HOA sues me to enforce their illegal rules, I do have to incur costs (of both money and time) to fight for my legal right against their illegal rules. The fact that I can perhaps get the HOA to eventually pay mye back for my legal fees once I win doesn't change the fact that I do have to engage in a not insignificant legal hassle in order to apparently get an HOA to respect Federal Law. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com
But what deed restriction are you talking about? There's no such thing as a racist covenant. Are you saying that black people all leave their boats and Winnebagos in the streets and that those covenants are inherently racist? Are you saying that black people leave car parts in their yard? Is that why HOAs are bad and racist? They've created all of these seemingly benign rules to keep black people out? ------------------ women love me, fish fear me.
And what's with the attitude? I don't recall when you are upset about some perceived wrong that we decided to act in this way toward you even when we disagree (which is often). I know it's possible for you to debate issues without resorting to that sort of attitude. I'd appreciate it if you did that in this debate, too, at least when talking to me. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com
The "whites only" deed restrictions that are common in this state. The issue came up during the Presidential election when it was revealed that George W. Bush's house in Dallas had such a deed restriction. They do exist, even though they aren't enforceable. Your continued point is that what is in the deed is what you get. But if I buy a house in Dallas, my deed may well say I can't sell to non-whites. Therefore, what my deed says is not what I get in that case (thankfully). The same should be true to other illegal deed restrictions or homeowner rules, but they aren't necessarily. Considering that we do have HOA restrictions on satellite dishes that violate federal law, I have to go to court to enforce my rights. Am I calling the Waahbulance by wanting to exert a right that is contradicted by my deed restriction or HOA restriction? ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited May 03, 2001).]
I don't know about any conspiracy theories and nosey neighbors. All I know is that, in my experience, HOAs are the sum of usually rational people. If there's an example of an HOA in Podonk, TX where dogs and cats are sacrificed for Satan, there's nothing I can truly do for you if you buy a home there. Before closing on my condo, I was asked to review the condo's rules and regulations. I knew what I was getting in to. If you're looking at a home whose regulations are governed by an association, I encourage you to determine a) your legal rights in your state of residence and b) the area's covenants, etc. And if a police officer arrests you for keeping a library book two weeks too long, you'll have been wronged as well. Luckily, the legal system will sort it out in the end, I trust. next up in the hangout forum: starting a trade embargo against the EU b/c they're unfairly restricting my rights to move there w/o putting my cats in quarantine.... and I just have to move there, I have no choice. ------------------ women love me, fish fear me.
If there was such a written policy of the library that included illegal or unconstitutional language in order to check out a book, then maybe this analogy would make some sense. Your contention seems to now be, "Who cares if HOAs violate the law or trample people's Constitutional rights. You're just a whiner if you don't like it." ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited May 03, 2001).]
Hopefully, my intuition came across that the enforceable portion of your deed is what you own. Somehow I suspect that in real estate law a single non-enforceable covenant doesn't make the entire contract non-binding. You never have to go to court to enforce your rights. You just have to show that a particular covenant is illegal. HOAs don't want to spend from their general fund if they don't have to. Sorry that frustration snuck out earlier. I merely see this as a situation of a consumer and vendor. As such, I'm completely dumbfounded that a potential consumer would yell at the vendor about the restrictions put on the product that the vendor sells. For example, if I buy a puppy tomorrow, I can't suddenly elect to feed the puppy to a bull mastiff as a training toy. Is that an unfair obligation as a pet owner? Of course not. If I buy a car, I can't use it to traffic drugs from UT to AZ. And if you buy the condo next door no Celine Dion after 10, thanks. ------------------ women love me, fish fear me.
And your contention is that all HOAs honestly care where you put your satellite. This isn't the case. Your contention is also apparently that all HOAs are racist. This isn't the case. ------------------ women love me, fish fear me.
mrpaige, in S.C.'s state constitution, a non-believer cannot be governor. This obviously isn't in accord w/ the US Constitution. Is the rest of the state's constitution unenforceable? Should I not move to S.C. b/c of the odd chance that I might run for governor and somebody might try to enforce this unconstitutional law? Will somebody arbitrarily enforce this law upon me? What do you see the course of events happening in such a situation? What is the course of events that you see happening for you to be able to put your satellite on the side of your house in whatever imaginary hoa we're discussing? Do unconstitutional laws exist from time to time? Are they unique to HOAs? Is the HOA a bastion of arbitrary unconstitutional law? Is it the only place that I'll ever experience any wrongdoing ever in my life? LOL. I hope, as always, that you know this is just in fun. ------------------ women love me, fish fear me.
