There is a point to be said about culture and how one was raised. Vick was dog fighting ever since he was 8. That said, he grew up in freakin Virginia right? And he became a millionaire with enormous advantages and opportunities to change. He failed to do so, broke the law, and served the punishment that this government deemed as proper. I don't know if he was a sociopath, but it wasn't just culture. Not every kid who grew up where he did became a dog-fighter participant and then ring leader. I think it's part culture, part long line of terrible decision-making, and also a cruelty (or evil) in one's heart. Anyhow, if brainwashed child soldiers can adapt to society, then so can Vick. Vick didn't murder people and Vick wasn't brainwashed the way child-soldiers were, so the rehab to become normal should be easier. No one is a lost cause.
Again, you are confusing human life with animal life. Having little respect for an animal is completely different than having respect for human life. Im not implying racism at all...but if you grew up seeing dogs fight, its really not that much of a reach to think its okay...its an animal. Human life is completely different and you keep bringing up examples where the two are the same. They arent.
It seems like people are arguing that dogfighting is considered acceptable or the norm among certain social groups in America, but to my knowledge it's not something that's generally accepted in the african american community or the southern community, but simply the dogfighting community. As far as I'm concerned, it's deviant behavior, end of story. I don't disagree that Vick, having served his time, should be allowed back into the NFL. I think he should be. But I'm surprised that there are posters here defending him on a personal level. I live in Philadelphia, and most of the Eagles fans who are happy to have him still consider him a sh!thead.
I dont think anyone is defending what he did...the only thing Im defending is the fact that he is considered a sociopath, has antisocial personality disorder, etc...those kinds of things require much more evaluation than just seeing someone who fought dogs. My father has been a child psychiatrist for over 30 years...it takes much more than what has been presented to diagnose someone the way it has taken place here. I think what he did was stupid, immature, and disgusting...but he paid his dues. He lost everything. And he should, by all means, be allowed to be a part of society again.
I'm not sure anyone has said definitively that he has a personality disorder, but are you disputing the multiple studies that have been conducted linking animal abuse to antisocial and sociopathic personalities?
As I've said, I have no problem with him working in the NFL. There are bad people all over the place who have high paying jobs. He's done his time, but some people want to make him a sympathetic figure, which for me he will never be. I'm happy for ex-cons who get jobs out of jail. But I wouldn't entrust a convicted embezzler with the books to my business, no mater whether they've done their time in prison or not. That isn’t judging them, it is just simple prudence. I said I wouldn't trust him to take care of my children, and that people who managed to grow up without empathy don’t suddenly develop it in adulthood. rezdawg seems to think that it would be unreasonable of me to not entrust him with care of small infants.
Until he shows any ability to harm human life, there is no reason to think he is capable of doing so...animals and humans are completely different. I get sad when I hear about a baby that is left in the back seat of a vehicle...but I dont care if my neighbors dog passes away. My regards for human life are much greater than for animal life.
Thank you Tex it's about time someone else see the difference in killing a man and a dog i love my dog but killing a human is a lot different.
We are on the same page then, overall. I wouldn't trust many people with my puppy -- let alone human children. I'm sorry I had missed your point about letting him working in the NFL.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but was Vick ever busted for killing and torturing dogs? Did he ever admit to this? I thought he was charged with financing an operation and something with money across state lines...or like something is illegial in this certain state. All this talk about strangling dogs and the like, is this something they ever proved that he did, or that he admitted to doing? I have no problem with Vick playing football again. There are too many dudes in the NFL that have done, and are currently doing, worse things than killing dogs. Yes, I think beating on your woman (i.e. Brandon Marshall) is worse than killing a dog. I think killing a man (even accidently) is worse than killing a dog. And as far as the Stallworth thing not being as bad because "he didn't mean to", OH WELL!! I find what he did to be much worse because he had many opportunities not to get behind the wheel drunk, and he chose to do so. Any drinker knows the potential consequences when they drive drunk, and he basically said F it and did it anyway. The dude is rich. He could have called a cab. He could have gotten a limo. He could have gotten a groupie to take him. I even believe the NLF has a program where they will pick drunk players up and get them home. He had absolutley no excuse to get behind a wheel drunk.
I wont get any rep added to this, but i'm going to let it rip. I think what Vick did was uncalled for and stupid. It was stupid to get suckered in or even being associated with the whole idea of dog fighting and killing of dogs. I do think the backlash over killing a dog is overkill. Its a dog, plain and simple. Now i know people that pay for their dogs to have surgery and all kinds of human concepts, but its still a dog. Just like in the country when that dog cant hunt, papa takes him out back and put a bullet in his skull. To some, that sounds cruel, but its a dog. I'm willing to bet most of the outrage falls on racial lines. No matter how close dogs are to like african americans, even those that have dogs, they're still dogs. The older generations like my dad is really see dogs as just dogs. He remembers dogs best friend biting on their legs in the 60's and being guided to attack black people. If you dare try to get one of those german shepards off you, you might get sprayed with a high pressure hose or just flat out get killed. In the end, the man served his time and if he wouldn't have traveled across state lines, he wouldn't served more than 6 mos. Through it all, he lost millions, his rep will never be the same, and he will never earn as much as he did before. He killed dogs, stallworth killed a drunk man that walked in front of his vehicle, i don't know how people can even compare a dog's life to a human.
1 Vick funded and ran the dog-fighting operation. In other words, he wasn't just a "user", he was the "dealer". Very big difference. 2 He didn't just kill dogs, he tortured them. Repeatedly. Again and again and again and he enjoyed it. Torturing and brutalizing animals for pleasure is depraved and sick. Read some of the gory details and they will make you want to vomit. 3 Nobody except PETA and precious few other people are nuts enough to equate a dog's life with a human life. You created and beat a straw man with that one. 4 The result of what Stallworth did was worse than Vick, but at least it wasn't premeditated. Vick got up every morning knowing what he was going to do. Stallworth had no intention of taking a human life and I will give him some credit for owning up to what he did instead of lying about it like Vick did before the evidence became overwhelming. Again, Stallworth's actions had a worse result than Vick's but I won't call him a depraved human being because his intent was not to hurt anyone/anything. I say this as a hardcore zealot against drunk driving who is glad Stallworth was suspended a year by Goodell. I also think it's proper for Vick to have another shot at the NFL. Try learning more detail on Vick's case. You will find out that calling what he did "uncalled for and stupid" and saying he got "suckered" falls way short, regardless of how you feel about dogs. Maybe you are different, but each person I've discussed this with personally was blown away and changed their mind on the spot.
I've read the entire thing and i think its wrong, but the guy shouldn't have to jump through hoops. Peta and the Humane society are just like the other attention whores in this country. What did hey do to the dogs? They put them down anyway. Where are all the cries for the greyhounds of the world? You will see a midget on the street befor you will a greyhound. In the end, its a dog. Its no different than what they do to the elephants in the circus. Its no different than allowing people to pay for a license so the can sit in a stand in the trees and shoot deer with a high powered rifle.
Did he say he did those things personally, and is that what he went to jail for? I'm not trying to defend him. This is an honest question. Define premeditated. Did he mean to do it...the answer is no. However, did he willingly choose to get behind the wheel drunk, knowing what could possibly happen? The answer is yes...and he had multiple options available to him to prevent that. Sounds just as bad to me....
Yes it is different. Whatever your position on hunting, it is absolutely different. Let me ask you, is there a difference between someone shooting&killing you vs pulling your teeth out, starving you, beating you, electrocuting you, breaking your bones, eventually drowning you or hanging you to kill you?
To be honest, People go out with the premeditated thought to go kill a deer, ducks, moose, or whatever and they're not doing it b/c they're hungry or trying to survive. They're doing it b/c its a game to see if they can. So what makes them so different. By law its says they are able to do so, but what makes it any more different than fighting dogs. Now the torturing was horrible as well as the killing and it shouldn't have been done. But most of these PETA people arent tripping on the hunters who go out killing for competition.
So If I decided to kill the deer instead of torturing it before I kill it, you'd be ok with that. Killing a deer and a dog same difference. I do agree that torturing is unnecessary. But I am saying that people are crucifying Vick fighting dogs when others kill animals for game, fun, competition.
I'm not saying what Vick did was right by any means but animals that are hunted do not always die quick, painless deaths. I have pics and videos to prove that from my hunting trips.
As probably the biggest Philadelphia Eagle fan on the board, I think Vick deserves a second chance. Do I like him on the Eagles? Sure, I just am not sure how they are going to use him, how he fits with the personnel and what not. I guess we'll see...
