You are exactly correct. I've never been overly "anti-JVG." I think he is an adequate NBA head coach that doesn't add anything particularly interesting to the mix. That's it. From the day RT was fired, I said the Rox were headed for another lottery season, and gave many of the reasons above. IMHO, the act of changing head coaches made the team worse. Add that to the existing issues, and I smell regression. With regards to the Francis point in particular, JVG's system is centered on consistent "defensive intensity" from every player. I don't know whether Steve Francis is capable of that. In a different scheme, SF can take a lesser role in the defense. Had Larry Brown been hired, I would've laid many of the same issues on his doorstep. However, my opinion that LB is equal or slightly better than RT as a head coach would have ameliorated my pessimism a little bit.
Perhaps, or maybe it's the other way around, and Van Gundy's schemes take lesser defenders and make them into something more. That is the goal, anyway.
edc, all I'm gonna say is that if you think the 99 Knicks team are something special, then you seriously are dellusional. Btw, show me the list of coaches that averages 55% wins after subtracting their best season (or 59% for that matter).
Substracting JVG's best season, his record is actually 57%. You are right that it is pretty good in itself but not counting a coach's best season is a strange way to assess the man's success ! How about this argument: edc had a few good posts but those really skewed his intelligence. If you forget about them, his posts are really terrible!!
No time to sit down and figure out percentages, but taking either the coach's entire history, or the last four seasons (to keep things more or less even), here are the guys with comparable resume's (as per NBA.com). Jim O'Brien, 44, 49 wins Don Nelson, 40, 53, 57, 60 wins Larry Brown, 43, 48, 48, 56 wins Isiah Thomas, 41, 42, 48 wins Phil Jackson, 50, 56, 58, 67 wins George Karl, 41, 42, 42, 52 wins Flip Saunders, 47, 50, 50, 51 wins Byron Scott, 26, 49, 52 wins Doc Rivers, 41, 42, 43, 44 wins Maurice Cheeks, 49, 50 wins Rick Adelman, 44, 55, 59, 61 wins Gregg Popovich, 53, 58, 58, 60 wins Jerry Sloan, 44, 47, 53, 55 wins Thirteen coaches. Throw out the best season, Isiah and Doc are out of this club. I repeat, JVG is nothing special. Incidentally, read the thread. I gave him props for 1999.
edc, I've been one of the staunchest defender for Rudy in the past months. But he's no longer our coach. Let's move on. There's no use saying this coach is not as good as Rudy. Just hope that he can work good things with the team. I have always thought that coaching is more about "chemistry" than actually skills. There is just no linear way to compare coaches. You can't rank them in a list and say this coach is better than that coach. A coach can be very good for one team but not so good for another. I can accept the fact that Rudy is a great coach but is not as suitable for this team as a guy like JVG.
Maybe, maybe not. I would honestly like to be wrong. Nothing would make me happier. However, I'm not going to put on rose-colored glasses. For reasons both in and out of Les Alexander's control, IMHO the owner doomed this club to another lottery season. JVG is adequate, but not a saviour, and nowhere near the value of "a lottery pick."
Van Gundy has a career winning percentage of .5878 not including the season he quit. That would put him around 11th or 12th on the all time list above Larry Brown, Don Nelson and Rudy T. Nothing special...
Don Nelson coaches the Mavs; if Phil Jackson can't win those games with Shaq, Kobe and MJ he'll never win any thing; Isiah coaches in the EC, which is one of your arguments that like JVG he won't win anything in the west; same goes for Scott and Brown; Popovich is something special but not proven, there's no guarantee that he'll win w/o Duncan; Sloan is also something special but he's a Jazz, @ least half the Rox fans would never stand him. But what I find the funniest of all is Jim O'Brien: Pierce, Fatty Walker Don Nelson: Nowitzki, Nash, Finley, NVE Larry Brown: AI, KVH Isiah Thomas: Jermaine, Reggie, the nutcase who should of made all-star (you know who I'm talking about) Phil Jackson: Duh George Karl: Cassell, Allen before, Glove and Desmond now Flip Saunders: KG, Wally Byron Scott: Kidd, KMart, Jefferson Doc Rivers: TMac, Gooden Maurice Cheeks: Damon, Pip, Bonzi Rick Adelman: I'll just say the deepest team in the NBA right now Gregg Popovich: Duncan, Parker Jerry Sloan: Karla, short shorts To put this in perspective, everyone of those coaches you listed have at least one superstar and one decent scrub, not some not so great (good not great, even in his prime) center who should of retired 2 years ago and a bunch of benchwarmers on any other half decent team. Btw, I would take the Franchaise player of any of those teams you listed above and build a team around (except Mo Cheeks' team). Who did JVG have? I don't make it out like he's the greatest coach but credits where they are due.
If you think Van Gundy is an upgrade at the coaches position? You are wrong. This is not an upgrade. If your going to make a coacing change its usually an upgrade. Why make a change if its not better.It could be worst.
You asked for a list, I gave you one. Over a comparable time span, JVG's regular season record is in the upper half of coaches, but nowhere near the top. I do give JVG credit...for being an adequate NBA head coach. He won't screw things up royally here, and he's got a decent shot at the playoffs in his second season, but if Les wanted to "win and win now," IMHO he sabotaged that goal.
